The Os..and their legal standing.

An archive of news, events and discussion leading up to and post West Ham United's historic move from Upton Park to Stratford in 2016.

Moderators: Gnome, Rio, bristolhammerfc, the pink palermo, chalks

Locked
User avatar
davids cross
Uncle David
Posts: 27205
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:20 pm
Has liked: 674 likes
Total likes: 1289 likes

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by davids cross »

'Ammer'Ead wrote: in the event that the judge gives permission for the full challenge to be brought it can be expedited for a relatively quick resolution (subject to possible expedited appeals to the Court of Appeal of course!).
At a guess AE what sort of time frame are you thinking of................few months ?
Persil Tickets
Posts: 428
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:05 pm
Has liked: 19 likes
Total likes: 2 likes

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by Persil Tickets »

From todays Evening Standard. I don't claim to be an expert but still cannot see them getting anything from the courts. All bluff.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard- ... 0m-loan.do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
User avatar
hammers1954
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 10:37 pm
Location: Stratford - host to 2012 Olympics

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by hammers1954 »

Persil Tickets wrote:From todays Evening Standard. I don't claim to be an expert but still cannot see them getting anything from the courts. All bluff.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard- ... 0m-loan.do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
The problem with the O's case against Newham and the loan being "unlawful state aid" is that the money Newham are loaning will be to the joint venture company, made up of Newham Council and West Ham, and that it came from the Treasury as part of special funds that can be loaned to local government for discrete projects. Presumably Treasury satisfied themsleves that the purpose Newham would be putting the money was legal. As for Newham not being able to loan to "West Ham" because they are already in their area this is surely a red herring. The purpose of any council is to support the people and groups in their area. Perhaps Mr Hearn would be happier if Newham Council were lending money to businesses outside their area, say perhaps to one in Waltham Forest!

This seems more and more like a legal fishing trip to get some compo from someone or anyone!
User avatar
Deptford Hammer
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:04 am

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by Deptford Hammer »

I don't think Hearn will be able to Judicially Review the Premier League because it is not a public body. You can only use Judicial Review to challenge decisions of public bodies or private bodies executing a public function. There have been 2 cases against the Jockey Club which found they were not susceptible to Judicial Review for that reason. That leaves him with a compensation claim aganst the PL.

OPLC and Newham are public bodies so can be Judicially Reviewed. Judicial Review looks not at the decision but whether the correct decision making process was followed when the decision was reached. So if Newham and OPLC followed fair and correct procedures then he is stuffed. If they didn't then the court won't substitute their own decision for Newham's or the OPLC's but simply strike the decision down and tell Newham and/or OPLC to reconsider the decision using fair and correct criteria and process.
User avatar
Hammer110
Posts: 2537
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:56 pm
Location: Dreaming 父 父

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by Hammer110 »

At the end of the day with Spurs threatening a judicial review before the process was even complete you can bet you bottom dollar the process was squeaky clean. I can't see why the OPLC or government would have to consider Orient on the process, if this was the case why are we not seeing judicial reviews all over the place every-time a council or the government gives planning permission for a business that could harm another or rents a business premises to competitor. Hearn's anti-competition laws claim is ridiculous because trying to prevent us from growing also has to be in breach of anti-competition laws.
Ironworx
Posts: 1943
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:52 am

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by Ironworx »

hammers1954 wrote:
The problem with the O's case against Newham and the loan being "unlawful state aid" is that the money Newham are loaning will be to the joint venture company, made up of Newham Council and West Ham, and that it came from the Treasury as part of special funds that can be loaned to local government for discrete projects. Presumably Treasury satisfied themsleves that the purpose Newham would be putting the money was legal. As for Newham not being able to loan to "West Ham" because they are already in their area this is surely a red herring. The purpose of any council is to support the people and groups in their area. Perhaps Mr Hearn would be happier if Newham Council were lending money to businesses outside their area, say perhaps to one in Waltham Forest!

This seems more and more like a legal fishing trip to get some compo from someone or anyone!
Joint venture is the crux of the nub, it's not a straightforward loan from Newham to WHU, there is an element of joint venture so it's not state aid unlawful or otherwise....

Can't see as this one has space on the ground on which to stand.
Ironworx
Posts: 1943
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:52 am

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by Ironworx »

Deptford Hammer wrote:I don't think Hearn will be able to Judicially Review the Premier League because it is not a public body. You can only use Judicial Review to challenge decisions of public bodies or private bodies executing a public function. There have been 2 cases against the Jockey Club which found they were not susceptible to Judicial Review for that reason. That leaves him with a compensation claim aganst the PL.

OPLC and Newham are public bodies so can be Judicially Reviewed. Judicial Review looks not at the decision but whether the correct decision making process was followed when the decision was reached. So if Newham and OPLC followed fair and correct procedures then he is stuffed. If they didn't then the court won't substitute their own decision for Newham's or the OPLC's but simply strike the decision down and tell Newham and/or OPLC to reconsider the decision using fair and correct criteria and process.

He has a gripe with a PL rule, not a breach of the law a possible breach of a PL rule....

What could a court say ? Naughty PL, you've broken one of your own rules that you're under no legal obligation to have put in place yourself in the first place :?
Ironworx
Posts: 1943
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:52 am

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by Ironworx »

Hammer110 wrote: I can't see why the OPLC or government would have to consider Orient on the process, if this was the case why are we not seeing judicial reviews all over the place every-time a council or the government gives planning permission for a business that could harm another or rents a business premises to competitor.
Business is the crux of the nub, football is just a business no different to any other type of business in the eyes of the law. I can't see why Orient should have to be considered either....

As much as one business moving closer to another might be seen as anti competitive by one person, preventing a business from moving might be seen as anti competitive by another.
User avatar
York Ham(mer)
Posts: 9644
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:15 am
Location: In exile up north
Has liked: 111 likes
Total likes: 149 likes

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by York Ham(mer) »

He's not going to get far with the "unlawful state aid" bit. That's a reference to EU legislation prohibiting state aid that might distort competition insofar as it affects trade between Member States. You can straight away see a problem with that line of attack.
User avatar
Romford
Big X
Posts: 39027
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:16 pm
Location: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYyxdmHogLU
Contact:

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by Romford »

They really wont take my argument in...

http://www.leytonorient2.com/forum/view ... d3#p119555" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Persil Tickets
Posts: 428
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:05 pm
Has liked: 19 likes
Total likes: 2 likes

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by Persil Tickets »

Romford - not that they would listen but I drink in The George at Wanstead all the time. We make up the majortiy of fans, Some Arse, few Sp*rs and a handfull of O's fans and I am being generous to them.
User avatar
hammers1954
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 10:37 pm
Location: Stratford - host to 2012 Olympics

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by hammers1954 »

Romford,

Some interesting but weird posts on the O's forum. Especially how some seem to now think Stratford is their 'turf''. I have lived all my 57 years in Stratford and my family have lived in Stratford since at least the early years of the 20th century, I don't think we have ever thought we were living in anything but a solid West Ham supporting area, Perhaps those O's fans should consider they themselves are 'johnny come lately's' only moving to Leyton from Clapton in the 30's.

As far as the free/discounted ticket offer is concerned do Notts. Forest ever offer discounted tickets? if so I don't hear about Notts. County crying foul. Now you really can'tget much closer than those teams
User avatar
AJ
Posts: 7626
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:20 pm
Location: Dreaming dreams, scheming schemes, building castles high

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by AJ »

Stratford in either my life time or my dads lifetime has never been Orient Turf, Orient fans seem all too keen to pander to King Hearns comments whilst others stick their heads in the sand.

There is a couple of Orient fans who have recognised that Hearn is only in it for the money, you can only hope the rest get clued up and throw him out of the club.

One Orient fan said you couldnt determine a clubs turf just by geographic borders? So what about Liverpool and Everton whose turf is whose? Or Notts County and Notts Forest? Where do you draw the line? Do we start back at the very first ground we had? Okay so thats West Ham Lane near Stratford :lol:

I give up with this, its like Hearn has brainwashed some people.
User avatar
fireman
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:38 am
Location: By the river!!

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by fireman »

I have to say that this posturing by Barry Hearn is nothing short of a joke and is actually quite sad.

I grew up in Leyton, attending Leyton Senior High, and although it was a long time ago I do not actually remember one single Orient supporter at the school. The majority were West Ham followed by Sp*rs and Arse. We looked on Orient as our local division 2 club who we would go and watch if West Ham were away. The pre-season friendlies were also great as I knew loads of the people that went (all West Ham I hasten to add).

Barry Hearn is now destroying all the fondness West Ham fans have for the Orient with his attitude. His ridiculous claim that by moving to Stratford West Ham are encroaching on his teams manor. Forget it mate, Leyton is a West Ham area, most Orient fans I know are actually from Walthamstow. What does he Know? I don't think the clown is even from East London.:crest:
AMC1964
Posts: 1079
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:19 am

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by AMC1964 »

Romford wrote:They really wont take my argument in...

http://www.leytonorient2.com/forum/view ... d3#p119555" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

quality work mate., pure quality. :crest:
User avatar
sanchoz
Posts: 12444
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 3:41 am
Location: Founder of the Carlton Cole Fan Club - Rainham & Guildford Branch
Total likes: 11 likes

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by sanchoz »

http://www.sportinglife.com/others/news ... ml&BID=678" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No Hockey Stadium for Orient then?
User avatar
LondonPride
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:54 pm

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by LondonPride »

Whoever is 'Panto' on the Orient forum is giving the O's a good pasting.
User avatar
davids cross
Uncle David
Posts: 27205
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:20 pm
Has liked: 674 likes
Total likes: 1289 likes

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by davids cross »

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3269/lea ... ic-stadium" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
saludo de carlitos
Posts: 9796
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:08 am
Location: Deepest most beautiful HAMPSHIRE!

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by saludo de carlitos »

Just heard Barry on SSN calling us a small team and to get of our patch. :lol:
User avatar
Muddy
Posts: 11572
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Has liked: 12 likes
Total likes: 27 likes

Re: The Os..and their legal standing.

Post by Muddy »

Hearn is starting to irritate me. He's nothing more than an insignificant thorn in the side of a Giant.
Locked