OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

An archive of news, events and discussion leading up to and post West Ham United's historic move from Upton Park to Stratford in 2016.

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brownout
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by brownout »

Denbighammer wrote:Regardless of the legal issues, the perception amongst the public, both football and non-football fans, is that we've cheated our way into a taxpayer-funded new stadium. Everyone will hate us. Does that really matter? It can't be a positive thing.

Is it all really worth it? Not that it matters now, we can't shut the stable door as that horse has well and truly bolted. Lets just hope we don't get left with a 3-legged donkey.
We've already signed up for that, it's just a question of whether we have to pay more for it.
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Believer
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by Believer »

the pink palermo wrote:Are you joking ?

.
PP - you'll need to forgive me my IT shortfalls re: quoting etc but here goes...

Cloud of secrecy, bogus polls etc. Agreed. However those issues are with us, the fans. That should not concern the Govt or taxpayer.
Spurs weren't complaining when they bid. They lost. Additionally, the deafening silence about their illegal methods and practises during the bidding process speaks volumes about the press and their allegiances.
My bad ! You mentioned "state aid" NOT "legal aid". Sorry :)
Karren does my head in too. Yes she should foxtrot oscar. She is basically using our club as a conduit to getting into Parliament.

And yes, to round it off, our execs and PR are a joke. I do envy Spurs on that count.

in my humble opinion there is undoubtedly some murky background to this sorry saga but unless I'm mistaken, every request from LLDC, the Govt and Uncle Tom cobbly and all is that we have done everything asked by the aforesaid regarding our bid and fulfilling the obligation set upon us. What we are guilty of is maybe being too keen to do all we were asked knowing full well we were getting deal of the century when maybe we should have challenged the rents etc. Had we employed a marketing team, a PR exec and a Project Manager for this move, I'd suggest that we would not be the villains that everyone likes to paint us. Let's not kid ourselves, Sullivan & Gold are not most people's cup of tea. They have an image which some people frown upon. Sullivan is your Del Boy , your Arthur Daley. He has no class in front of the camera. He is quick to appear on Sky to applaud himself etc but he speaks when unnecessary and remains quiet when a statement is required. I'm maybe naive in matters political and this is most probably where I'm missing yours, sick notes and others' points but we were invited to bid for a stadium. We bid. We won. We then Had to re-bid due to investigations, complaints etc. again we won. Now if there are outstanding issues that remain, why were they not raised after the chaos surrounding the first bid ? Why did people not take time out to review the application, the opportunities available to ALL parties. Let's not forget, Orient & Spurs could have bid the same as us. Orient couldn't so got into bed with Levy. Spurs wanted their cake and to eat it too. They wanted to destroy the so called legacy. We worked around it or suggested we will. IMO, we won the rights to a £170m facelift of an existing structure and are subsequently being charged for it by way of a 10% deposit and 2% repayments over 99 years or so. People are up in arms (wrongly IMO) that we are getting a £700m state hand out. We are not. We are getting a venue which was not fit for purpose and which was going to remain empty barring a few race meetings each couple of years. To enable us to use this venue, modifications are required. We are being given the bill for those modifications over an agreed time.
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by Mega Ron »

Surely the huge difference between us and Barca/Madrid/Ajax etc (other than being s.hit) is that they get to use their stadiums all the time.

I don't see the issue with it being state aid as we only have the place 20 odd days per year.
  • M/V per year for a stadium, as suggested in the Guardian piece for Ajax, is around 9m Euros.

    We have the OS for say 30/365 days per year.

    9m Euros x 30/365 = 739,726.
In my opinion we are being overcharged. Even at London prices.
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by sicknote »

If you were not a west ham supporter and lpokong at it as a uk taxpayer propping up a premoer league football club iin a business awash with money you would see ot differently , the pr from the club has been very good cloak and dagger stuff and quelled any kind of questioning, I hope for their's and the clubs sake especially the fans they took notice of the pitfalls of this deal it was always there being raised by mps press and mostly our own fans, the other clubs all were aware but cannot do anything until tills start rolling at the OS, hence their silence, and its not just uk clubs that will be inyerested in this, if they have been turned down in germany greece france anywhere for similar deals they will consider it an uneven playing field, orient and spurs could just sit back and let the mess unfold as it easily could if there's any issues
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by Georgee Paris »

I actually think people don't really care. They aren't really that bothered about how west ham got the stadium and aren't bothered in the slightest if it cost west ham anything and most people wouldn't really care if west ham went out of existence. I think too many people especially here in kumb think the world revolves around west ham. Most tax payers just accept it. Like life. We don't get to choose anything. We have no rights. If west ham get taken oven by billionaire oil baron gangster and decide to buy the club stadium and British life the fines and costs are small fry. The government will bend over backwards to accommodate. This story is just scaremongering as per usual. The os is happening all be it continually under capes and shadows. It might be good and it might be rubbish. The old west ham is long gone. You have no choice. Like it or lump it.
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by Big George »

More details, its being driven by the architect who initiated the original legal challenge that resulted in the previous fudge

He's persuasive
http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... d-question" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by Mega Ron »

Fair enough if we are not paying enough but what should we be paying?

Yes it is a bit of a 'get out' but we are only tenants.

Should it be £5m a year? 10?

Should we not be allowed to play there at all?
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by Believer »

Big George wrote:More details, its being driven by the architect who initiated the original legal challenge that resulted in the previous fudge

He's persuasive
http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... d-question" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I. believe this is the same architect who was overlooked for work on the stadium. Hmmm !
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by AlfieG »

Believer wrote:
I. believe this is the same architect who was overlooked for work on the stadium. Hmmm !
Whatever you think about the guys motives, we and the LDDC appear to have given him a massive stick to beat the club with...

BoJo's bluster and waffle means nothing if the right people in Europe decide there is a case to be answered......
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by Believer »

Georgee Paris wrote:I actually think people don't really care. They aren't really that bothered about how west ham got the stadium and aren't bothered in the slightest if it cost west ham anything and most people wouldn't really care if west ham went out of existence. I think too many people especially here in kumb think the world revolves around west ham. Most tax payers just accept it. Like life. We don't get to choose anything. We have no rights. If west ham get taken oven by billionaire oil baron gangster and decide to buy the club stadium and British life the fines and costs are small fry. The government will bend over backwards to accommodate. This story is just scaremongering as per usual. The os is happening all be it continually under capes and shadows. It might be good and it might be rubbish. The old west ham is long gone. You have no choice. Like it or lump it.
To be honest before Hearn and his bow locks I was all for the O's winning the stadium. Keeping it at a 25k bowl. More than enough for them. However it would of been on condition that proceeds from the sale of their stadium went to the Govt.
The thing that weve got away with is not giving the total amount gained from selling the BG to the Govt. Had we offered that or indeed given it, we might not look like we do.
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by Believer »

AlfieG wrote:
Whatever you think about the guys motives, we and the LDDC appear to have given him a massive stick to beat the club with...

BoJo's bluster and waffle means nothing if the right people in Europe decide there is a case to be answered......
As mentioned on this thread any many others, this is where Brady has to earn her extremely high wages. She needs to come out and make a statement to everyone about where we stand with this.

I'm genuinely getting p*ssed off with everything West Ham at the minute. I've just renewed and am seriously questioning my own sanity ! :P
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by sicknote »

That and the very suspicious voting rules in the newham vote for the 40million quid rightly raised again on here and in the press at the time, and never properly investogated even newham residents I know have asked about it and no answers at all
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by Believer »

It's always the same. We as supporters just keep having to go through the mill with everything associated with the club.

It's all Gerrard's fault ! (Sorry different thread !) :)
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by sicknote »

Believer wrote:It's always the same. We as supporters just keep having to go through the mill with everything associated with the club.

It's all Gerrard's fault ! (Sorry different thread !) :)
Or was it scaloni....or reo cocker......a whole new thread...or was it just our turn
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by LeonRivers »

Believer wrote: To be honest before Hearn and his bow locks I was all for the O's winning the stadium. Keeping it at a 25k bowl. More than enough for them. However it would of been on condition that proceeds from the sale of their stadium went to the Govt.
The thing that weve got away with is not giving the total amount gained from selling the BG to the Govt. Had we offered that or indeed given it, we might not look like we do.
I don't get it. If you sell your house and move into rented accommodation would you give the proceeds from the sale of the house to your new landlord?
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by AlfieG »

LeonRivers wrote: I don't get it. If you sell your house and move into rented accommodation would you give the proceeds from the sale of the house to your new landlord?
Maybe..... What did you agree as your (deposit) payment in your contract??
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by brownout »

kitthehammer wrote:How can we be liable if we are tenants?
If anyone has to pay out it would be the owners, surely
Or would it be that the tennancy agreement is at fault and this has to be renegotiated to comply with EU rules?
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by Claret&Blue,Thru& »

Lot of disagreement on here. Just to be safe, I vote that we forget about it & stay at the Boleyn. Now how do I register that vote?
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by Big George »

Claret&Blue,Thru& wrote:Lot of disagreement on here. Just to be safe, I vote that we forget about it & stay at the Boleyn. Now how do I register that vote?
It won't be an option on the "whatdoyouwantittosayGuv?" poll
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Re: OS to cost West Ham millions in EU penalties

Post by Believer »

LeonRivers wrote:
I don't get it. If you sell your house and move into rented accommodation would you give the proceeds from the sale of the house to your new landlord?
Nope you're right. I'm just trying to play devils advocate. I am still puzzled as to what the club have done wrong. The only people who have not been consulted are us, the paying customer.

The problems so far as I can see are that West Ham will by moving into the OS reap rewards that we wouldn't have if we'd stayed at BG.
However by doing so we no longer own our ground. We no longer have a worthwhile asset. We are now governed by a landlord. Even if G&S go, more money will go to the Govt !!

Questions that remain unanswered include who pays for it's upkeep ? Any running repairs are paid by who ? How much are the athletics paying to be housed there. Do they get a percentage of the income that we create. Is anyone going to complain during the rugby whilst sitting in their corporate box paid for by their company execs or whatever that they shouldn't be sat there as after all it's only been added to the stadium to accommodate us (or so you would think based on the hoo ha in the papers). I'll bet you any money that the journo from the Guardian today or the disgruntled architect will be first in line at the front of the queue should there be corporate seats available for any up and coming event in the OS.

People need to remember that this stadium benefits us but we are not the only ones to benefit.

What I hope is that we do get bought in time by someone with far too much money and they decide to build another stadium on the Olympic site. We can then walk away from the OS. Give it to the Olympic committee or whoever and let them do what they want with it.
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