West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

An archive of news, events and discussion leading up to and post West Ham United's historic move from Upton Park to Stratford in 2016.

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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by hadleighhammer »

HamburgHammer wrote:There could be a scenario where we have new wealthy owners who might be interested to make some drastic changes to the stadium.

Not saying this will definitely happen, but it is a possibility.
Why is it a possibility? What would be the business case to invest these £100ms to rebuild the stadium? How would there be a significant return on this investment, and how long would it take to see the return back on the investment? Very little and decades are the answers to that compared to leaving the stadium in its current configuration.

Never going to happen. There's no commercial benefit. Someone may buy it if the terms are **** to get hands on the additional revenue, but that's as far as it will go and even that I think is very unlikely.
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by scotnob »

A more realistic concern (though I expect someone knows better) is that the stadium will need full-scale renovation in say 25 - 30 years' time. While this doesn't matter to us that much right now, it will need financing, and I'd expect the rent from all activities including football to be sufficient to build up a "depreciation account" to fund it.

It doesn't look like our rent covers this, so there's a question to be answered about how it all works. I'm sure there's a good answer that we'll soon see, but it's not clear yet, so I think disclosure is a good thing.

Or is it already known? Perhaps it's all covered by other profits, but that is taxpayers' money so it's still not clear that it's all properly worked out.
Last edited by scotnob on Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by HamburgHammer »

Depends. If new owners were really keen on getting their hands on the naming rights and income from other events happening there it is a possibility somewhere down the road.
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by hadleighhammer »

HamburgHammer wrote:Depends. If new owners were really keen on getting their hands on the naming rights and income from other events happening there it is a possibility somewhere down the road.
Of what? Them buying it? Renovating it?

If the naming rights and other income is significant so that we want it, then it will be priced accordingly (and vice versa). Do you think any owner in their right mind will invest £100ms on something that could (or could not) provide a return after 20+ years down the road? The only reason to buy it would be to sell the club and use it to appreciate the club as an asset.

All this "someone will buy us and build us a fantastic new stadium" seems based on nothing more than wishful thinking rather than any specific rationale.

Anyway, if the views are fine and only "different", why would any business bother making drastic changes for the customer?
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

Boris was asked this morning in the London Assembly Question to the Mayor whether he would publish the details of the deal. He answered that he would be quite happy to do so, but that West Ham were against it and he believed they were taking legal action to prevent it. He went on to say it would only be fair to wait for the outcome of the legal action.
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by Believer »

hadleighhammer wrote:


All this "someone will buy us and build us a fantastic new stadium" seems based on nothing more than wishful thinking rather than any specific rationale.
I don't think anyone genuinely thinks that new owners would build a new stadium. I threw that out earlier more tongue 'n' cheek. However I also think that should we get new owners, they would consider buying the stadium.

The potential income for the stadium is endless from our perspective. Will Olympics alone secure a multi million pound naming rights deal ? No. What about the advertising round the stadium ? Who would spend huge sums on advertising that isn't going to get maximum viewing eg Sky cameras ?
The TV deal plus sponsorship related to the stadium could be massive. If they wanted for example £300m, who is to say that we couldn't build an alternative stadium on the Olympic Park for about £100m more ? We could give the stadium back to the Govt - let them get on with it. Everyone seems to be hysterical about us getting "the deal of the century" so if it's that good, keep it. We can build a 60k stadium elsewhere on the park and ensure maximum naming rights etc for ourselves.

This current deal is huge for the Govt. It has saved them from huge embarrassment and huge costs long term. They're guaranteed £250m back from us in rent for the duration of our stay. Naming rights will apparently be mostly given to the Govt. Say they're getting £50m for 5 years - all of a sudden they've got £300m. If truth be told and they get more rent dependant on our success ? Potentially they could be looking at vast sums of money coming back from the white elephant.

I think it's clear that we have accepted a poor deal for West Ham United but the Daves were so keen to get in there they accepted regardless.

My guess is that we get....
100% ticket money
10% naming rights
60% trackside advertising
50% food and drink
100% club merchandise
100% shirt sponsorship

The main advantages are the increased ticket and corporate money. Our profile will grow in there so we should be able to attract better sponsorship deals for strips, training gear, training ground etc.

I have no doubt that anyone wishing to buy the club would study the deal with their legal team and find ways in which certain agreements can be altered. Maybe naming rights could be bought separately for PL matches so it'd be the "Westfield Stadium" or whatever for 340 days a year and the Govt get 90% of that however for the 25 days a year that we use it we could sell the naming rights ? Alternatively, the stands could have their own individual sponsorship deals - "The Betway Bobby Moore Stand" for example.

I don't know whether any of this is feasible or not as we haven't seen the agreement but fair to say that the Olympic Stadium in its location is an investment to potential buyers regardless. I'd imagine there's scope for the agreement to be amended as circumstances will change through time. There might eventually be a European League, we could go bust, any number of things could happen so there has to be some flexibility.
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by Pop Robson »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:Boris was asked this morning in the London Assembly Question to the Mayor whether he would publish the details of the deal. He answered that he would be quite happy to do so, but that West Ham were against it and he believed they were taking legal action to prevent it. He went on to say it would only be fair to wait for the outcome of the legal action.

Must be an even better deal than the deal of century
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by mywhufc »

Believer wrote: My guess is that we get....
100% ticket money
10% naming rights,only over a certain amount, which i spossibly £100,000,000 over 10 years
60% trackside advertising, ill be surprised if its that high
50% food and drink again, after the catering company get their cut, and then Vinci get theres, i doubt it will be 50%,more like 10%. though we get all the corporate catering
100% club merchandise
100% shirt sponsorship
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by Believer »

mywhufc wrote: My guess is that we get....
100% ticket money
10% naming rights,only over a certain amount, which i spossibly £100,000,000 over 10 years
60% trackside advertising, ill be surprised if its that high
50% food and drink again, after the catering company get their cut, and then Vinci get theres, i doubt it will be 50%,more like 10%. though we get all the corporate catering
100% club merchandise
100% shirt sponsorship
[/quote]
Does that mean we won't get any of the naming rights and less than 60% trackside advertising or is that your opinion ? If you're right, we've really sold the jerseys....
I'm actually really keen to see what benefits we will get. Normally you'd expect moving to a much bigger stadium to hugely benefit your club. It looks like we're only going to benefit by the bigger gate money.
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by mywhufc »

Believer wrote: Does that mean we won't get any of the naming rights and less than 60% trackside advertising or is that your opinion ? If you're right, we've really sold the jerseys....
I'm actually really keen to see what benefits we will get. Normally you'd expect moving to a much bigger stadium to hugely benefit your club. It looks like we're only going to benefit by the bigger gate money.
im 90% certain in the naming rights, trackside is an estimated guess.
the uplift in income, is estimated to be around 15-20 million per season taking away any TV money, but some extra sponsorship may lift that a couple of extra million.
and that is a figure ive seen from, to use a C&H phrase, a senior source
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by gavrosh »

quite a good (if comical) post on the Charlton forum

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/778/2133 ... 5f61_o.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EDIT: sorry its to big for the mods here to work out ow to re size it
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by Believer »

mywhufc wrote: im 90% certain in the naming rights, trackside is an estimated guess.
the uplift in income, is estimated to be around 15-20 million per season taking away any TV money, but some extra sponsorship may lift that a couple of extra million.
and that is a figure ive seen from, to use a C&H phrase, a senior source
Thanks. Be interesting to see the uplift that Arsenal made and the projected uplift that Spurs, Chelsea will make in new stadiums.

I think accepting all these stipulations is very short term thinking. The only future rises above and beyond this initial uplift will be by us, the supporters paying more at the gate. I'm not turning my nose up at an extra £20m a season but in the grand scheme of things, I'd say that taking into consideration the new stadiums at Totts, Chelsea and Liverpool coupled with the existing stadia at Arsenal, Man City & Man Utd, we will still be looking at top 7 or 8 maximum. We could have the best season ever next year and all we will get is an extra £20m plus whatever extra we get for finishing high up the table. We won't get extra sponsorship and will actually have to pay the Govt a slice as well.

Surely not. Anyone else reckon we've been hoodwinked !!
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by Francoisvander or else »

Was this story ever denied by the Dave's or the Baroness? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... lease.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe there could be some truth in it because lets be honest when it comes to negotiating shirt sponsorship we are pretty ****.
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by Believer »

Francoisvander or else wrote:Was this story ever denied by the Dave's or the Baroness? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... lease.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe there could be some truth in it because lets be honest when it comes to negotiating shirt sponsorship we are pretty ****.
I'm not so sure about shirt sponsorship as I think that would and should remain 100% ours. It's the fact we are giving away large chunks of catering, trackside advertising, naming rights etc that worries me. A fair deal would IMO be a straight 50/50 split on sponsorships associated to the ground with everything else going to us. I still insist that without us the taxpayers and the Govt would be f'd. We are bailing them out from a decision that could have been avoided had they accepted Eggy's proposals all these years ago that we contribute £100m to the build of the OS on condition it is built with football in mind after the Olympics.
There was no viable option elsewhere - we were the only option and yet we've had our arses felt. (Apparently).
We will wait and see what comes out but if rumours are to believed, we have sold our souls for 20% of the new TV deal extra per year. Spurs by contrast have managed to go undetected getting their "state aid" in paying for regional transport / commuter upgrades to their new stadium and will get extra income from their properties, bars, restaurants, full naming rights etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to turn my back on the club and don't follow West Ham for success but I genuinely thought that this new stadium could be our chance to really push on. It appears that all it may achieve is continued presence in the top flight.
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by sanchoz »

gavrosh wrote:quite a good (if comical) post on the Charlton forum

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/778/2133 ... 5f61_o.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EDIT: sorry its to big for the mods here to work out ow to re size it
The mantra has been for some time that the CAST are not taking a personal stance against West Ham United fans but instances like the above damage that argument from CAST.
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by Wembley1966 »

mywhufc wrote: 50% food and drink again, after the catering company get their cut, and then Vinci get theres, i doubt it will be 50%,more like 10%. though we get all the corporate catering
The corporate is probably worth at least 50% of catering revenues. One of my mates is bringing his sales team over from the US and paying £1,000 a head at the Emirates for their Man Utd match in 2 weeks time. He's said next time they come over they'll see us at the OS.
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by a86 »

very interesting read from 2011...

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... ing-rights" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Man City pay their local council £2m a year for secured stadium naming rights...

£2m a year outlay to council... £35m a year stadium sponsorship income...

bare in mind this is a 10 year deal! so City will pay £20m and get £330m profit!

THIS IS JUST FOR NAMING RIGHTS!!!
now take into account ticket income, merchandise, a percentage of catering and many more deals.

I can just imagine west ham doing the same which might ruffle a few feathers at Spuds, Orient and Charlton.
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by Believer »

a86 wrote:very interesting read from 2011...

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... ing-rights" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Man City pay their local council £2m a year for secured stadium naming rights...

£2m a year outlay to council... £35m a year stadium sponsorship income...

bare in mind this is a 10 year deal! so City will pay £20m and get £330m profit!

THIS IS JUST FOR NAMING RIGHTS!!!
now take into account ticket income, merchandise, a percentage of catering and many more deals.

I can just imagine west ham doing the same which might ruffle a few feathers at Spuds, Orient and Charlton.
I think mywhufc covered that in my post (above). Unfortunately we will only get a small percentage of naming rights
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by a86 »

yeah but if you read it, Man City BOUGHT the right to be the beneficiary of the naming rights income. not taking a 50/50 deal.
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Re: West Ham ordered to reveal details of Olympic Stadium deal i

Post by Red Kens Slave »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:Boris was asked this morning in the London Assembly Question to the Mayor whether he would publish the details of the deal. He answered that he would be quite happy to do so, but that West Ham were against it and he believed they were taking legal action to prevent it. He went on to say it would only be fair to wait for the outcome of the legal action.
Of course he would. Any deal and lack of negotiating power on the part of the LLDC was born from the short sightedness of his Labour colleagues. also, seeing as he leaves his mayoral post before we even get into the stadium he simply can't lose.

West Ham are not taking legal action to prevent it. they, along with the LLDC, are considering whether to appeal to the First Tier Tribunal in line with standard FOI processes.
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