The Ashes 2017/18

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smuts
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by smuts »

One wicket in a day. Sigh.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by steps »

The annoying thing about his series is we’ve got ourselves in good positions but then failed to capitalise and put our foot on the throat of the Aussies. Then they’ve totally outplayed us in response.

Utterly dismal from England today.

Can’t see anything past 5-0 now. :(
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by smuts »

Smith's average of 62.8 is only second to Bradman. Unbelievable really.

It's hard to see past a 5 nil now. The mental damage done to the bowlers today will be hard to come back from. Perhaps Wood can come in for the next test and when the squad came out people raised eyebrows why Ball was selected over Plunkett who at least has some pace.

I can see Cook quitting England duty sadly at the end of the tour. He just looks like a bloke who knows he peaked years ago. Broad has gone well off the boil for a few years too. Just seems like age is catching up with them.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by jacko »

Bend it like Repka wrote: How can we prepare better?

We have one fast bowler in Wood, who has been injured
What other batsmen are there who would do better? It's taken a year for us to find a number 5 and two years to find someone who resembles an opener.
We don't get to face bowlers of this pace on these wickets anywhere else in the world apart from SA. How can we prepare?

It is no different to India turning up on green seamers in England. Totally alien to them.
while I agree with you on my things...I think you can prepare. Eddie Jones has been doing that in the rugby. We should be preparing for the next away ashes series.

There are always things that can be done. We have been mugged off from the moment we got there with Bairstow.

We can't win in Australia without a quick bowler and a spinner, in my opinion. We have produced pace bowlers in the past. We need to identify the talented quicks and try to get them playing county cricket regularly. Same goes with spinners. The thing is, if you want a top test team that can win all over the world you need a spinner and someone with pace.

We are going here with all these military medium bowlers and Ali has been shown up as a very average spinner - we are simply never going to win.

You're right. We didn't have many other options for this tour but I think that's where the long term preparation comes in.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by Tenbury »

[quote="westham,eggyandchips"

We lost KP and Swann last time around, I wonder whose England career is ending this time?[/quote]

Cooke. Vince. Balance. Moeen. Broad.........Strauss?
Last edited by Tenbury on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by Tenbury »

In a roundabout way I think long-term leaving Stokes behind for this tour was fortunate.I'm sure,future conduct aside,he will be second on the list of picks, but his contribution to this tour,IMO ,while not changing the final result,would possibly have masked over the obvious deficiencies in the side.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by jacko »

Stokes is an idiot. I think he would have made a huge difference but he clearly can’t handle his drink.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by Slacking student »

Slacking student wrote:This has Steve Smith ugly double hundred written all over it. Shocking batting again this morning to collapse for 6-36
The Smith double ton was inevitable the Mitchell Marsh 170 is unforgivable.

Only thing that might save us is weather around on Monday
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by anjado »

England gave up any hope of competing in the ashes as soon as they dropped Adil Rashid for Liam Dawson last summer. Picking a batsmen who bowls slow left arm darts and dropping a player who was the leading wicket taker in India the previous winter for no good reason is a major fact why we are currently failing.

It's with great irony that Nathan Lyon a man who only got picked by Australia because he was a good foil for Rashid's bowling in the big bash league is closing in on 300 wickets yet the man who was the comfortably the better bowler has only played 8 tests for England.

To win test matches you need to take 20 wickets i know that sounds obvious but in the previous 12 months.

We have picked

Ball - 4 wickets in 4 tests
Dawson - 169 wickets in 131 first class matches
Ansari - 128 wickets in 71 matches
Ali - 13 wickets in his last 8 tests away from home.
Broad - No 5 wicket hauls in 2 years.

How can you expect a team to take 20 wickets in a test match with such a poor selection policy.

Rashid may have gone for a few runs but if you take away his first innings and last innings in test cricket. this is his record

Innings - 16
Overs - 360.2
Maidens - 31
Runs - 1310
Wickets - 37
Average - 35.40
4 wickets - 4
5 wickets - 1
Economy - 3.63
S/R - 58.42

That record is more than decent for a leg spinner just starting out.

This is his record in Australia

Record in Big Bash League

Innings - 16
Overs - 45.4
Wickets - 26
Runs - 366
Average - 14.07
Economy Rate - 6.58 roughly (couldn't work out how to do it but it was 6.51 one year and 6.66 the other)
S/R - 10.53

Yet Rashid was dropped for Dawson because Dawson made a gutsy 66 against India despite the fact Rashid made 60 in the same innings and was the leading wicket taking for England his strike rate with the ball was 52 better than Ali and 69 better than Dawson.

I just don't get it Rashid was also dropped for the first game of the champions trophy last summer which we lost to Bangladesh. It's bizarre how some cricketers in England get chance after chance and others are dropped almost instantly when something goes wrong despite them often performing better than the player.

The same thing has happened to Plunkett, Swann, Panesar, Willey, Hales and countless others over the years.

This is what needs to change pick the players on merit. Picking players on potential only works if you have exhausted all other options that is why Overton and Roland-Jones look far better than Jake Ball. If a player is dropped from the test team due to a problem with their technique don't recall them until they have fixed this Gary Ballance is the prime example no one believes if he were picked for the next test he would be ready so find someone else.

It's embarrassing losing 5-0 to the likes of McGrath and Warne etc is somewhat understandable losing to this current Australia team 5-0 is frankly embarrassing and that is what is more than likely about to happen.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by jacko »

anjado wrote: It's embarrassing losing 5-0 to the likes of McGrath and Warne etc is somewhat understandable losing to this current Australia team 5-0 is frankly embarrassing and that is what is more than likely about to happen.
Yes, this is why it is so poor. Stokes really let us down in my opinion.

You're right about Rashid but I think Root must have had a hand in him not being picked as he plays with him at Yorkshire and knows him well. Dawson was a bizarre selection and shows how muddled our thinking is sometimes.

I think they should get rid of half the counties have about 8 regional teams. That way it will get rid of the plodding county cricketers who realistically have zero chance of ever playing at an international level.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by jacko »

God I loathe Steve Smith. Saying that Malan was our best spinner. To be honest, Ali has been so poor on this tour we really need to start looking at other options.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by SoulCircus »

What exactly are they doing at Loughborough other than ruining bowlers with already decent actions e.g. Finn. Haven't had a decent fast bowler for years, which is what we need in Australian conditions.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by jacko »

SoulCircus wrote:What exactly are they doing at Loughborough other than ruining bowlers with already decent actions e.g. Finn. Haven't had a decent fast bowler for years, which is what we need in Australian conditions.
Quite. I also worry about a lot of players we bring through, like Hameed.

THe bbc article mentioned above is very good. But something is going wrong. It's cricketing suicide to go to Australia with no pace and a spinner. I guess we weren't to know that Ali was going to have his worst ever series with the ball but we sure as hell know we simply cannot beat them with our pie throwers on their wickets.

I know there aren't any fast bowlers ready in the system but please let's start preparing for the next ashes away.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by sendô »

Weren't Finn and Wood both injured? So two quicks right there. Sub them in for Overton/Ball and Woakes and maybe it's a different story.

The biggest issue with our batting is Cook who has looked woeful for ages and is probably about to quit. Vince doesn't look the part, but the others are getting better and with a top form Cook beside them they might have looked much better.

Losing Stokes before the series was a real kick too.

Ultimately I think aside from teh above, our main strike bowlers in Anderson and Broad just haven't really threatened. Particularly as Australia isn't somewhere that generally suits their technique. Thrown in Ali's finger injury and that leaves our attack practically impotent.

Smith looks absolute quality, which is doubly annoying as he is a total bellend.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by smuts »

Pomnishambles 2: the sequel.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by aaronhammer »

Vince with a lovely 50 and then gets arguably the best ball Starc or anybody will ever bowl - when your luck is out.

Cook with another low score, really hope he gets out of this form - which we’ve seen him go through before.

Going to need Malan/Bairstow/Ali/Woakes to stick around and try to get something, if the weather can help us keep the series alive it will be something.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by westham,eggyandchips »

Bless em...... they can return from their 3 month holiday in Oz and get on with playing in English conditions against Pakistan & India where neither of them rarely turn up in the test format, and the whole cycle begins again.

When we arrive back from this shambles we should start planning NOW for the next series down under.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by smuts »

Vince was seriously unlucky. That ball would have bowled Bradman even if he had a 2 foot wide bat. Pitched middle and leg and took out off....at about 90mph.

No excuses for Root. That shot was awful. Sums up his tour to be honest. You look to senior players to step up and him, Cook , Ali and Broad have been dire.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by Bend it like Repka »

smuts wrote: No excuses for Root. That shot was awful. Sums up his tour to be honest. You look to senior players to step up and him, Cook , Ali and Broad have been dire.
That is the reality of things. Take away Smith and put Root in the Aus side and they would be beatable even with their attack.

Just listening to Ponting and Vaughan on Cook. Ponting said he is batting like a player trying not to get out, rather than score runs so his mindset is wrong. He is practicing like crazy, but his mindset is not clear.

Maybe the pressure is telling on Joe. There is always the danger that when you make your best player captain this can happen. Been in the field two days can't switch off, played a stupid shot he should have left.

Broad has bowled ok at times without reward, but we all know these are not his conditions. Agnew said something in the late summer that he was bowling differently and that looks to have continued. Maybe the clock is ticking for him.

In reality the single biggest problem is that neither Cook or Root have a ton. If either of them gets one on a perfect batting pitch we draw this match.

As usual there are tiny margins in sport. The Aussies are holding brilliant catches. Vince looks set and gets the only ball that has deviated like a spinners snorter.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Post by jacko »

westham,eggyandchips wrote:Bless em...... they can return from their 3 month holiday in Oz and get on with playing in English conditions against Pakistan & India where neither of them rarely turn up in the test format, and the whole cycle begins again.

When we arrive back from this shambles we should start planning NOW for the next series down under.
Exactly. We will be saying what heros they are when the ball is swinging around at trent bridge. We need to plan now. Let's get a group of players together who can put up a good fight on any surface.
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