Autumn Internationals

[sendô]

Technically they're all sheep shaggers.

The only good thing about that fixture is one of them will probably lose.

[Slacking student]

But why did it have to be the sheep shaggers from down under. f*** me I despise the Welsh winning at rugby

[DasNutNock]

But why did it have to be the sheep shaggers from down under. **** me I despise the Welsh winning at rugby

What I saw of that game was absolutely pitiful stuff from both sides. No way anyone should have celebrated that win.

[DasNutNock]

Having ruminated on the game over the weekend, special praise must be made for Sam Underhill. I haven’t seen an England flanker offer so much over 80 minutes since the early 00s when it was Hill & Back. The bloke looks like he was born to crash into people - an extremely powerful athlete, without doubt, but his timing and all pitch skills were there to be seen. Huge shame he didn’t get his try at the end, the way he flummoxed Barrett was a thing of absolute beauty.

Wondering if a Curry/Underhill flanker pairing could be the future for England.

[Clacton-ammer]

Why did we not kick the penalty when we had the chance????????? Against lesser sides I get it, but the AB????

Why did the commentators all think try at the end while watching the same video as the refs, was it subjective/opinion?

[DasNutNock]

There’s still lots of question marks over the Lawes offside call, and that seems to be about where the offside line actually was. There’s evidence that the rucking player he was supposedly stood in front of when the kiwi SH played the ball was not properly bound (just grabbed a player’s shirt, which the rules state is not a proper bind) and thus as not part of the ruck and not affecting the offside line. Plenty of retired refs and AB players spotted this, some people didn’t.

TBH, although this was the most contentious point in the game, and robbed Underhill of what would have been a fabulous, historic, score, it wasn’t what lost England the match. We could definitely have won it if we hadn’t made the simple mistakes that were made - Itoje’s line out failures, and Farrell not taking the straightforward kick. But the ABs would probably be able to say the same about the points they conceded (getting pulled out of position for Ashton’s try, and not defending our rolling maul properly), so it’s all a moot point.

[DasNutNock]

There’s also the matter that this was meant to be the first game where the referee was only meant to refer to the TMO if he was not clearly observing the play. He was 4 metres away from the action and couldn’t possibly be considered to be not well placed, and have the try. The TMO then flagged the possible offside to him, and he allowed the decision to be reversed. World Rugby is backing this change, but it contravenes their own TMO changes that are meant to be giving more power back to the on field officials.

[DasNutNock]

Anyway, marginal offsides are ignored dozens of times every match, so electing to focus on this one - where there was no straight and compelling evidence that Lawes was actually offside - was a bit harsh. But as I say, we had plenty of other chances to win and didn’t take them - much like the Saffers last week.

[sendô]

Yes, as annoying as it was to lose to a TMO overturned try at the end like that, we had chances to win we didn't take. Farrell opting to kick for a line up when given a penalty virtually under the posts at 15-13 was just poor game management. Don't forget Sinkler dropping one when we were within 3 or 4 yards of the line and had the kiwis stretched.

The encouraging thing is, despite how crap we've suddenly looked over the last year or so, we matched the all blacks more or less over 80 minutes there, and could and probably should have won. It shows that we're capable when we're on our game, and that the all blacks are not the invincible team of rugby gods they're made out to be.

[Eggchaser]

Having ruminated on the game over the weekend, special praise must be made for Sam Underhill.

I'd like to say that he's been doing it regularly for Bath, but the problem is he keeps getting injured, often concussion I think. Probably largely due to the fearless way he hits the opposition.

I haven’t seen an England flanker offer so much over 80 minutes since the early 00s when it was Hill & Back. The bloke looks like he was born to crash into people - an extremely powerful athlete, without doubt, but his timing and all pitch skills were there to be seen. Huge shame he didn’t get his try at the end, the way he flummoxed Barrett was a thing of absolute beauty.

I was almost more upset by that than the actual result. The way he beat Barrett was one of the best things I've seen an age

TBH, although this was the most contentious point in the game, and robbed Underhill of what would have been a fabulous, historic, score, it wasn’t what lost England the match. We could definitely have won it if we hadn’t made the simple mistakes that were made - Itoje’s line out failures, and Farrell not taking the straightforward kick.

Have to agree, in fact with regard to the line outs, it wasn't simply Itoje at fault, George's throwing was inaccurate and even then, given that the throw to Itoje wasn't working why did Kruis keep calling it? Poor all round really.

But the ABs would probably be able to say the same about the points they conceded (getting pulled out of position for Ashton’s try, and not defending our rolling maul properly), so it’s all a moot point.

I would say that those things are subtly different, certainly with Ashton's try, England pulled the ABs out of position by their play before hand. That's good build up play by England and if the build up play is good enough, there is very little you can do to defend it. It's what the ABs do very well.

Similarly with the driving maul. If you get it right, it's almost impossible to stop it without conceding a penalty.

[DasNutNock]

V true, especially about George/Kruis's involvement in the lineout failures. As with the win against the saffers the previous week, seems like the better team failed to take the opportunities they made and lost by a small margin.

Underhill's propensity for getting concussed is certainly a worry, hopefully he can swerve the head injuries and have a long career.

Eggchaser - what's your thoughts on Underhill & Curry in the same back row? Think there's a possibility that could work, potentially at 7 & 8, in the way that Hooper & Pocock play for Australia?

[Eggchaser]

Eggchaser - what's your thoughts on Underhill & Curry in the same back row? Think there's a possibility that could work, potentially at 7 & 8, in the way that Hooper & Pocock play for Australia?

I think it depends on the opposition and on the No 8.
The trouble being I that neither is a line out option, so the 8 needs to be, which pretty much rules out Billy Vunipola. That may not be an issue against the likes of Japan, but would be a disaster (IMO) against the likes of NZ or South Africa.

It would be nice to have them both available so one starts and the other finishes the game, thus giving England a bona fide open side for the full 80 minutes.

On the other hand, it might be interesting to see them both as "finishers" and see how we get on by keeping the ball on the pitch instead of kicking for position so much.

I think it would be nice to see England vary their style a bit more than they do currently.
For me they become a bit predictable at times.

[jacko]

Anyone aware of a decent stream for Japan England...

[DasNutNock]

Anyone aware of a decent stream for Japan England...

Reddit rugby has a bunch. Majority are junk, but the Twitch and upvoted ones should work.

[DasNutNock]

England getting a lesson in attacking back play from the Granaries here.

[Patito]

England getting the job done eventually. Plenty for Eddie to work on though.

Wales scoreline flattered them but they played some lovely stuff in the last 20 mins.

Saffers look really strong to me although only 6 points ahead going into the last 5.

[sendô]

Paddies about to turn over the Kiwis.

NZ now looking very much beatable ahead of the WC.

[Patito]

That was outstanding from Ireland. New Zealand didn’t have an answer.

[Johnny Byrne's Boots]

What a magnificent game of Rugby.

Comhghairdeas Éire

[Junco Partner]

That's Ireland de-facto World Champions then

Six Nations champs beat the Quad-Nations and World champions....comfortably.

Rory Best: Lions captain, 4 times Six Nations champ (incl 2 Grand Slams), only Irish Captain ever to win over New Zealand, Australia and South Africa....

Imagine an Englishman done that...

...FFS Liz, where's the Knighthood?