UFC

The forum to discuss all sports news not related to THE beautiful game.

Moderators: bristolhammerfc, sicknote, -DL-, Rio, Gnome, chalks, the pink palermo

Re: UFC

Postby DasNutNock on Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:34 am

Jumby wrote:You should have to fight for a vacant title, then again you shouldn't hit a man when he's down......

I've been trying to get into UFC but the hitting a man when he's down thing just doesn't well with me, never has and I can't see that changing, I do find McGregor intriguing though, the lad punches well.


At least they don't allow head kicks or knees to a downed opponent, like they do in Japan - that's just savage. I broadly agree though, punches and elbows to the head of a downed opponent aren't nice, but (IMO) it's up to referees to be more active in stopping fights. Problem is, of course, that you can defend those strikes and recover - potentially go on to win - and early stoppages please no-one. Durability has always been a part of combat sports, and some people can absorb frightening amounts of concussive blows without being stunned or ko'd.

I see MMA as a sport, nothing more than that. It's kind of the distillation of contact sport - a pure competition between two people with the intention of establishing physical superiority. Like rugby without the ball, or ice hockey without the ice, puck, sticks, armour & helmets etc. I run a mile from real violence, but have no problem with the idea that if two people want to agree some rules, then train for a refereed fight, they should be allowed to (and I'm allowed to watch).

I still think it's safer than boxing, though how much safer is open to debate. Still, people will always want to fight and people will always want to know who's the best fighter in the playground, pub car park, gym and world.
User avatar
DasNutNock
 
Posts: 3325
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: UFC

Postby nickkarkie on Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:31 pm

I agree Dan, only thing I would change is the weight draining for weigh in. I would make everyone fight at their walk around weight.
nickkarkie
 
Posts: 5862
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:41 pm

Re: UFC

Postby DasNutNock on Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:05 pm

nickkarkie wrote:I agree Dan, only thing I would change is the weight draining for weigh in. I would make everyone fight at their walk around weight.


Agreed. MMA is fast becoming a contest to see who can take the most drugs and cut the most weight before stepping on the scales, and I'm not interested in seeing that. It is definitely interesting to see how much has changed since the USADA started testing a little more frequently. Ronda, Vitor, Overeem, Hendricks, JDS, Erick Silva, Mir - all look different, and definitely fight differently now.
User avatar
DasNutNock
 
Posts: 3325
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: UFC

Postby Jumby on Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:45 pm

I think when McGregor flawed Aldo it looked amazing, it was then spoiled by him jumping on him and pounding at his head and face until the referee jumped in, it kind of looked cowardly. In boxing they often shake hands after a fight and acknowledge each other, how could you look someone in the eye and say 'fair game' after they've jumped on you when you're on the floor and half conscious and begin to throw, mainly, wild punches at your head and face? I really do want to try and get into MMA as a spectator sport but it's not something I'd want to take up, as silly as it sounds I find MMA a little cowardly, when a man is down let them get back up, if they can't the fight is over. I know in some sports they go to the ground and have to tap out but pummeling someones skull? I couldn't do it, there's something inhumane about doing that, but people love it.
User avatar
Jumby
 
Posts: 8603
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:53 pm
Location: Sparring with Michail Antonio

Re: UFC

Postby Aztec Hammer on Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:33 am

Jumby, there have been many notable fights where a guy has been dropped and seemingly finished but actually wasn't and recovered to win the fight.

Strikes to a downed opponent is an integral element of the fight and rightfully so. The issue lies more so with the refs calling it correctly when a flash knockout occurs or when a guy is no longer adequately protecting himself. Rockhold - Weidman is a clear example of the fight not being stopped soon enough. Of course this is somewhat difficult to be consistent with at times because of the amazing recoveries and comebacks that we've seen in MMA before.

On the flip side, there are many fighters who actually can be especially dangerous when downed and working his Jujitsu from the guard. McGregor - Diaz 2 would be a well known recent example. Conor dropped Diaz multiple times but refused to engage on the ground because Diaz would have arguably been dangerous even in his floored state due to his exceptional powers of recovery and Jujitsu. If you take that ability to engage on the ground, you take away specific skills and strengths of guys and you no longer have MMA; you have a limited variant of kickboxing.
User avatar
Aztec Hammer
 
Posts: 5228
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:44 pm

Re: UFC

Postby DasNutNock on Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am

Sub victories are increasingly rare at the top level, which is a shame. TKO/Decision far more likely to win these days, as wrestlers improved their sub defences.

Strikes to a downed, and prone, opponent should be properly reffed. Witness the Yamasakis and Rosenthals of the world springing into action after the fourth or fifth undefended punch connects to the jaw of an unconscious opponent. Henderson's follow up shot on Bisping is the all-time poster boy for better refereeing.

I think PEDs are the main problem. Bisping again - his eye's permanently f*cked from the Belfort fight. That definitely isn't right, and drug usage in combat sports should lead to a lifetime ban.
User avatar
DasNutNock
 
Posts: 3325
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: UFC

Postby Aztec Hammer on Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:02 pm

Completely agree about TRT. If you look at Bisping's record and who he has lost to, a laundry list of PED merchants... he might be one of the best fighters of all time but will never be recognised as such.

Yamasaki is a terrible ref. Demian Maia is a dominant submission fighter. Khabib's Sambo. If you took away the ability to attack after dropping an opponent, then theoretically ground and pound and any ground grappling would have to go to, short of turning the sport into Metamoris with Standup.

I think refs are frightened of early stoppages because of the reaction they'd get from the fighter who often claims he was absolutely fine and in no trouble.

In spite of all this, I detested Henderson for that Bisping shot because of the sheer obviousness it was over. That was miles from Conor - Aldo. So I do get it. It's on the refs to possibly err on the side of caution. If a fighter wants to complain about an arguable early stoppage, then the UFC should turn around and tell him not to get starched into that position in the first place.
User avatar
Aztec Hammer
 
Posts: 5228
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:44 pm

Re: UFC

Postby DasNutNock on Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:19 pm

Aztec Hammer wrote: Demian Maia is a dominant submission fighter. Khabib's Sambo. If you took away the ability to attack after dropping an opponent, then theoretically ground and pound and any ground grappling would have to go to, short of turning the sport into Metamoris with Standup.


It's a risk/reward thing these days. Maia's a JJ savant, Nurmagemadov is a bit of a sub specialist, true enough, and there are a few others attempting (and getting) the occasional sub win. The reason fighters are less inclined to attempt them:

1) Sub attempts from the bottom aren't scored. Whoever's on top is always deemed to be in control (even if they're defending sub attempts) so they will always rack up points in the judges eyes. At least if you're going for TKO or top control, you're scoring points.

2) Top fighters are well-trained enough to avoid sub attempts and just concentrate on positioning, leading to an inevitable (and boring) decision win.

Refereeing isn't helped by Dana White gobbing off to the press all the time whenever there's a hint of an early stoppage.
User avatar
DasNutNock
 
Posts: 3325
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: UFC

Postby Jumby on Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:17 pm

DasNutNock wrote:drug usage in combat sports should lead to a lifetime ban.


100% agree
User avatar
Jumby
 
Posts: 8603
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:53 pm
Location: Sparring with Michail Antonio

Re: UFC

Postby Jumby on Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:56 am

Just watched the BAMMA highlights, 18 second KO in a heavyweight fight via a knee to the head, jesus man!!! It just doesn't seem right :lol: mixed martial arts or just anything goes madness?
User avatar
Jumby
 
Posts: 8603
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:53 pm
Location: Sparring with Michail Antonio

Re: UFC

Postby York Ham(mer) on Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:41 am

Swanson v Choi was a hell of a fight at UFC206.
User avatar
York Ham(mer)
 
Posts: 7583
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:15 am
Location: In exile up north

Re: UFC

Postby bunk on Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:03 pm

DasNutNock wrote:I think PEDs are the main problem. Bisping again - his eye's permanently f*cked from the Belfort fight. That definitely isn't right, and drug usage in combat sports should lead to a lifetime ban.

Drug usage should lead to a lifetime ban for sure. But i will say the juiced up Belfort was one of the scariest fighters of all time, at the age of 19 he looked like a ninja turtle, battering people 40-50 pounds heavier than he was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOqG2BuVLMg
User avatar
bunk
 
Posts: 1415
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:27 am

Re: UFC

Postby DasNutNock on Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:07 pm

bunk wrote:Drug usage should lead to a lifetime ban for sure. But i will say the juiced up Belfort was one of the scariest fighters of all time, at the age of 19 he looked like a ninja turtle, battering people 40-50 pounds heavier than he was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOqG2BuVLMg


Steroids in his teens & 20s.
Testosterone in his 30s.
He's going to look fairly unwell in his 40s, I'd guess.

That head kick he planted on Bisping permanently damaged his eye. Stuff like that should lead to a prison sentence, let alone a lifetime ban.
User avatar
DasNutNock
 
Posts: 3325
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: UFC

Postby bunk on Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:59 am

Ronda Rousey's return didn't go exactly to plan, demolished by Nunes in 48 seconds.

https://twitter.com/SotoSportsTv/status/815106738001244160

That said, not a bad payday, with an apparent $3 million for herself.

Another change of champion, Cody Garbrandt surprising most people by beating Dominic Cruz. Yet to watch that fight but apparently it was a very good performance.
User avatar
bunk
 
Posts: 1415
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:27 am

Re: UFC

Postby Aztec Hammer on Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:59 am

Furious with myself for not jumping on Nunes via first round KO at 9/2. Easiest, most obvious money in a while and I didn't get on it.

Never nice watching someone go through a starching of that magnitude where they obviously shouldn't have been fighting anymore but Ronda almost made it enjoyable. Bye bye.

People have been asking where the next star is coming from. Cody Garbrandt has the best chance. A style of fighting that is hugely exciting to watch, KO power and showed a lot of personality in there tonight. He's not a good talker but he's got the looks and the skills. Great fight and to do that to Cruz in that manner, that's special.
User avatar
Aztec Hammer
 
Posts: 5228
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:44 pm

Re: UFC

Postby DasNutNock on Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:10 pm

Post-USADA Ronda definitely doesn't have what it takes. The only two vaguely competent strikers she faced walked straight through her. Also, her boxing coach is perhaps the worst high profile trainer in MMA, and she should have switched after the Holm loss, maybe before.

Cruz getting handled was a surprise to me. Haven't watched the fight yet, but if that new boy handled him like I've been reading, sounds like he's potentially top of that tree for a while.

Sounds like Nunez may be in a position to swipe Bisping or Stipe's FOTY title. If the Irishman had beaten Nate in their first, would've been him.
User avatar
DasNutNock
 
Posts: 3325
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: UFC

Postby nickkarkie on Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:44 pm

Garbrandt was sensational, the only one who will give him a decent fight is Dillashaw. He has brilliant standup, takedown defence, counter punching and movement.

Rousey has always been rubbish at standup, her punches and reactions are so slow, she's finished now.
nickkarkie
 
Posts: 5862
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:41 pm

Re: UFC

Postby durham city hammer on Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:54 pm

Lots of rumours going around that McGregor is facing Woodley next for the welterweight belt, a step too far surely ??
durham city hammer
 
Posts: 2134
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:02 pm

Re: UFC

Postby Slacking student on Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:04 pm

Philosophical Dan wrote:Image

Seems appropriate to repost this
User avatar
Slacking student
 
Posts: 1367
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:00 pm

Re: UFC

Postby Aztec Hammer on Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:30 pm

durham city hammer wrote:Lots of rumours going around that McGregor is facing Woodley next for the welterweight belt, a step too far surely ??


I'm picking Conor in that fight.

Rousey is the most mentally weak 'elite' athlete I've ever seen.
User avatar
Aztec Hammer
 
Posts: 5228
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:44 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Sports Bar

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests