hammerdivone wrote:So Conor Murray out of the final game due to injury, not sure how much of a blow that is considering his performance against Wales?
Wasn't the best against Wales but to me is still the best 9, just above Webb. I think its a bit of a result for England. Ireland are obviously worried about Englands forward mobility thats why they have dropped Toner but doing that gives us a big advantage in the line outs. Kiearny being out as well is a result.
Bookies fancy us big time. Looked at England +9 and its only 2-1.
If England turn up, we'll win comfortably (10-15 points) IMO....BUT, Ireland in Dublin vs. England will be a very different animal to the Ireland of last week.
Losing Murray is a big blow for them as he controls everything and lets Sexton do his stuff. Marmian (sp?) from what I saw last week is a bit more of a nippy scrum half, and I'm not sure that style fits into a bigger Ireland gameplan. Sexton was and still is the key though....if we can get at him, that should push things in our favour.
Think I would have left Hughes in and told him he has 60 mins max to go all out - with BV then coming on. Last week's bench was just scary!
As for Lions, I wouldn't be surprised not to see that many England players in there....Gatland has a set way of playing, with not much time to gel a side - and a fair few of the Welsh/Irish guys from Aus tour are still available.
Loftyhammer wrote:If England turn up, we'll win comfortably (10-15 points) IMO....BUT, Ireland in Dublin vs. England will be a very different animal to the Ireland of last week.
Losing Murray is a big blow for them as he controls everything and lets Sexton do his stuff. Marmian (sp?) from what I saw last week is a bit more of a nippy scrum half, and I'm not sure that style fits into a bigger Ireland gameplan. Sexton was and still is the key though....if we can get at him, that should push things in our favour.
Think I would have left Hughes in and told him he has 60 mins max to go all out - with BV then coming on. Last week's bench was just scary!
As for Lions, I wouldn't be surprised not to see that many England players in there....Gatland has a set way of playing, with not much time to gel a side - and a fair few of the Welsh/Irish guys from Aus tour are still available.
If Gatland does that then we'll get smashed. You could argue that all 4 of our second rows should go before anyone else, BV is way ahead of any other 8, even Faletau. Still think Murray is the best SH though but I don't have Care to come off the bench. He's a superb impact sub.
3times wrote:Wasn't the best against Wales but to me is still the best 9, just above Webb. I think its a bit of a result for England. Ireland are obviously worried about Englands forward mobility thats why they have dropped Toner but doing that gives us a big advantage in the line outs. Kiearny being out as well is a result.
Bookies fancy us big time. Looked at England +9 and its only 2-1.
Got a feeling our backs are going to get stiff necks when they have to keep looking up for the ball coming down from the Irish kicking
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3times wrote:
Wasn't the best against Wales but to me is still the best 9, just above Webb. I think its a bit of a result for England. Ireland are obviously worried about Englands forward mobility thats why they have dropped Toner but doing that gives us a big advantage in the line outs. Kiearny being out as well is a result.
Bookies fancy us big time. Looked at England +9 and its only 2-1.
I agree about scrum halves , they would be my Lions picks, it's a huge loss for Ireland.
hammerdivone wrote:
Got a feeling our backs are going to get stiff necks when they have to keep looking up for the ball coming down from the Irish kicking
Yep, that's why Watson is back in ahead of Nowell. Brown, Watson and Daly are all good under the high ball
I think with England coming into some form and Ireland struggling a bit, coupled with the players England have coming back and the Irish injuries England may just have the edge.
Provided of course, they can handle the Irish passion and the atmosphere, but I get the feeling this is the best equipped England side to do that since 2003.
Loftyhammer wrote:
Think I would have left Hughes in and told him he has 60 mins max to go all out - with BV then coming on. Last week's bench was just scary!
I think Jones has it right, Billy is the better player, start with him, get on top (hopefully) and bring Hughes on when he tires.
Loftyhammer wrote:
As for Lions, I wouldn't be surprised not to see that many England players in there....Gatland has a set way of playing, with not much time to gel a side - and a fair few of the Welsh/Irish guys from Aus tour are still available.
dave_l wrote:
If Gatland does that then we'll get smashed. You could argue that all 4 of our second rows should go before anyone else, BV is way ahead of any other 8, even Faletau. Still think Murray is the best SH though but I don't have Care to come off the bench. He's a superb impact sub.
Agree with Dave, although Care would be 3rd pick scrum half for me.
The only lock that gets close is Alan Wyn Jones and he'd be on the bench.
Eggchaser wrote:
Agree with Dave, although Care would be 3rd pick scrum half for me.
The only lock that gets close is Alan Wyn Jones and he'd be on the bench.
I was at a Q&A the other night with Andy Goode, Jim Hamilton, Will Greenwood and Gordon D'Arcy and as you can imagine the Lions was quite a hot topic.
They pretty much agreed about our second rows but also feel that you can't beat the experience of winning lions players. I had a chat with them after and at least one thought that Care offered the flare option from the bench that none of the others do, although it is a risky tactic against the Kiwi's. Surprising comment was that D'Arcy felt that Jamie George should be in front of Hartley for the Lions as he is the better all round player. It could be that Hartley might only go in front if he is captain.
3times wrote:
I was at a Q&A the other night with Andy Goode, Jim Hamilton, Will Greenwood and Gordon D'Arcy and as you can imagine the Lions was quite a hot topic.
They pretty much agreed about our second rows but also feel that you can't beat the experience of winning lions players. I had a chat with them after and at least one thought that Care offered the flare option from the bench that none of the others do, although it is a risky tactic against the Kiwi's. Surprising comment was that D'Arcy felt that Jamie George should be in front of Hartley for the Lions as he is the better all round player. It could be that Hartley might only go in front if he is captain.
That's a good shout from D'Arcy, George is a very good player and probably is a better all round player.
I'd be surprised if Hartley is selected as captain to be honest.
He will see us through the 2019 World Cup and then have 2 years to get the wheels in motion in planning for the next World Cup befoer the next Head Coach (who I suspect will be Gustard or Borthwick) takes over.
Mike Brown (Harlequins), Nathan Earle (Saracens), Harry Mallinder (Northampton), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Danny Care (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester), Jonathan Joseph (Bath), Alex Lozowski (Saracens),Jack Nowell (Exeter), Henry Slade (Exeter), Ben Te'o (Worcester) Marcus Smith (Harlequins) **, Ben Youngs (Leicester)
Forwards
Gary Graham (Newcastle), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Launchbury (Wasps)Zach Mercer (Bath), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Sam Simmonds (Exeter), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Lewis Boyce (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Tom Dunn (Bath), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton), Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)
** - Apprentice player
RE: Eddie Jones - great news. Always seems to get the best out of whoever he picks as well, so although the above isn't the squad I'd have picked, I won't be arguing with any of those selections.
Yes he is the real deal. Long way to go but he's performing well in the Premiership. He's got a lot of work to be done on conditioning his body to deal with the impacts and physicality of international rugby but he's certainly not shy to put his body on the line which will stand him in good stead. Look forward to seeing him progress but glad to see he isn't being rushed. Will learn a lot from Ford and Farrell on game management.
