The official KUMB Rugby Union Thread

[The Old Man of Storr]

England should really be coming top of all the Home Nations every year when you consider the population of the respective countries which make up the UK - Wales have a population of just over 3 million , Scotland just over 5 million , England just over 54 million - so you would think that by having such a numerical advantage population-wise and far better facilities England really should be producing better Rugby and better Football teams year in year out - why isn't this the case ?
It's a miracle in itself that a little country such as Wales are able to find 15 men worthy of the challenge of a country boasting a population 18 times its people .

[DasNutNock]

Fair enough. I thought they played brilliantly on saturday, and I'm pretty unhappy with the scotch for saving their worst performance of the year for Twickenham. What should have been a competitive match was an absolute hiding, but I suppose it allowed us to see what England at their best can put together.

There were a couple of first half tries that were borderline unstoppable and no team in the world (including the ABs) would have stopped them. I'll say it again - that was the best backline play I've ever seen from an England side. Defensively poor, though - we should have stopped at least 2 of the 3 scotch tries and hopefully Jones will get them defending pick & go near their line this week.

As for Ireland, I'm not sure there could be a harder game for England. There's so much at stake - for England a potential world record and a historic back to back 6 Nations Slam. For Ireland, the chance to beat their primary sporting rival and to block their shot at glory, the day after St. Patrick's day. Ireland will be especially motivated after being beaten by the taffs on friday, with a few Lions questions to be answered. But England will also be confident after their mauling of the world #5 team on saturday, and they've become a serious battle-hardened side.

I'm going to make Ireland favourites here. If England don't bring their A game, they'll lose - I'm pretty confident of that. They need to come out blasting and get their hands on Murray & Sexton as quickly as they can, because if they can shut those two down, they can shut down the Irish attack.

[DasNutNock]

England should really be coming top of all the Home Nations every year when you consider the population of the respective countries which make up the UK - Wales have a population of just over 3 million , Scotland just over 5 million , England just over 54 million - so you would think that by having such a numerical advantage population-wise and far better facilities England really should be producing better Rugby and better Football teams year in year out - why isn't this the case ?
It's a miracle in itself that a little country such as Wales are able to find 15 men worthy of the challenge of a country boasting a population 18 times its people .

Reasons why England have never consistently dominated NH Rugby:

1) Everyone raises their game against England, whether they admit it or not.
2) It's still 15 vs 15, no matter how big the respective population. You could argue that a smaller pool of players leads to a stronger team spirit and more settled side.
3) There is still a huge bias towards kids from the "right" schools in England. If this could be addressed, I suspect that England would be near enough unstoppable.

England U-20s, England Ladies and England Men's teams all travel to Ireland at the weekend, looking for Grand Slams. Perhaps a sustained period of dominance beckons? Who knows.

[The Old Man of Storr]

Reasons why England have never consistently dominated NH Rugby:

1) Everyone raises their game against England, whether they admit it or not.
2) It's still 15 vs 15, no matter how big the respective population. You could argue that a smaller pool of players leads to a stronger team spirit and more settled side.
3) There is still a huge bias towards kids from the "right" schools in England. If this could be addressed, I suspect that England would be near enough unstoppable.

England U-20s, England Ladies and England Men's teams all travel to Ireland at the weekend, looking for Grand Slams. Perhaps a sustained period of dominance beckons? Who knows.

I'd question No1 , mate - I remember one of our Teachers at School asking this very question during the 1970s , most , including myself answered ' The French ' , the reason being they were our nearest rivals at the time - however , over the years each Nation bar the Italians have either achieved the Grand Slam or won the 5 or 6 Nations , everything goes around in circles as far as the 6 Nations competition is concerned and I see that as a good thing . I love watching this competition and while I always would want the Welsh to win I am not hindered by any form of animosity towards any of the other Nations despite being personally attacked in Liverpool and France .
As for your No3 - I would argue that Wales has an even smaller pool of players to choose from seeing as Rugby is only taken seriously in the South of the country .

Anyway , as always may the best team win , this year it will be England and good luck to you - let us hope by next year the Irish , Scots , Welsh and French have regrouped and improved so as to make it a better competition .

I'm off to Inverness now as I have a hospital appointment tomorrow morning .

[3times]

I was at HQ on Saturday and what a day it was. Agree about Jones not being happy conceding 3 tries and think they will be working really hard on defence this week.

For what its worth I think we will beat the Irish. They may get up for it but I don't think they are playing particularly well. If we can get at Sexton early it could be the difference. With his recent injury problems he will not want to see Lawes bearing down on him for a bit a of a late one.

The front row battle will be interesting, we have the best 2nd row by far. Back row is tight, Stander has been exceptional and will need to be controlled but Billy is back so that makes a lot of difference.

Conor Murray is my 9 pick for the Lions and can dictate the speed of play but if we get at Sexton it negates a lot. Our 10/12 pairing is more consistent than theirs and if JJ plays like he did Saturday he could put a lot of pressure on Ringrose. Nowell and Earls are both top players but I would just go with Nowell. Zebo has not been playing well and is looking suspect under the high ball but he is quality when on his game. If Daly is not fit I can see Yarde coming in as he is better defensively. Brown just edges 15 for me.

I am at a Q&A tomorrow with Will Greenwood, Gordon D'Arcy, Jim Hamilton and Andy Goode so will be interesting to hear their take.

All in all though looking forward to a good game.

[hammerdivone]

Conor Murray showed little or no imagination against Wales Friday night 3times, what do you see in him more than Young's?

Ireland were very poor against Wales generally so unless they can suddenly find form they could be facing a big score

[sendô]

Ireland in Dublin is a tough task, but I'd make England favourites. The Irish have lost away to both Scotland and Wales this tournament, and despite being a good side haven't really looked great at any point in this competition. England are on a roll, and having Billy V back, along with the strength of Englands bench, I'd expect us to edge a tight game. Plus it's the day after Paddy's day - they'll all be hungover.

The whole world will be cheering on the Irish no doubt.

[Hammer1972]

England should really be coming top of all the Home Nations every year when you consider the population of the respective countries which make up the UK - Wales have a population of just over 3 million , Scotland just over 5 million , England just over 54 million - so you would think that by having such a numerical advantage population-wise and far better facilities England really should be producing better Rugby and better Football teams year in year out - why isn't this the case ?
It's a miracle in itself that a little country such as Wales are able to find 15 men worthy of the challenge of a country boasting a population 18 times its people .

Because it doesn't work like that.

Scotland have a population of 5 million, New Zealand 4.7 million - so why aren't Scotland better.

Argentina have about 40m, but are top of the FIFA rankings. USA have over 300 million but are 30th.

It's about sporting culture, not population.

[3times]

Conor Murray showed little or no imagination against Wales Friday night 3times, what do you see in him more than Young's?

Ireland were very poor against Wales generally so unless they can suddenly find form they could be facing a big score

Murray was not brilliant against Wales but as you say so were Ireland generally. To me he is the best 9 with Webb as the second. Youngs is dependable but winds me up with more often than not taking a step before he passes. Its not an easy decision as you could put Care in the frame as one to come on at 60 minutes to change the dynamic - probably more so than the others. It could be argued that, on the English front, neither Youngs or Care are the best at the moment but continuity means a lot.

[The Old Man of Storr]

Because it doesn't work like that.

Scotland have a population of 5 million, New Zealand 4.7 million - so why aren't Scotland better.

Argentina have about 40m, but are top of the FIFA rankings. USA have over 300 million but are 30th.

It's about sporting culture, not population.

While I take on board your comparison between Scotland and New Zealand , two countries such as Wales and England , both of whom have a tradition for playing rugby [ the sporting culture bit ] , both with similar climates , the one with the bigger pool to choose from [ 25m as opposed to one and a half million ] should in theory be the more consistent side - but you're not .

[ironstu]

I don't buy that theory at all TOMOS. As has been mentioned, why have NZ been so dominant for years in the sport when they have such a small population? It makes a big difference when you look at strength in depth, for example if you picked a 1st, 2nd, 3rd XV etc from England and put them against Wales/Scotland/Ireland etc then England would probably win 9 times out of 10, but at the top level you are putting 15 men against 15 men, the amount of people in the country or rugby playing population, most of which is playing socially is not indicative of how those 15 men should perform.

[sendô]

You can only field XV men, and in a nation where Rugby is popular there comes a point where population is less important than investment and quality of coaches.

I think it's also fair to say that England are the most consistent nation in the NH, by any measure.

[hammerdivone]

It could be argued that, on the English front, neither Youngs or Care are the best at the moment but continuity means a lot.

As Leicester proved last season, sometimes it's the best team that wins, not the team with the best players

[ironstu]

Billy Vunipola and Anthony Watson brought into the starting XV for Saturday with Hughes and Nowell dropping to the bench. Good calls, Watson is like another fullback under the high ball, a tactic Ireland love. And if big Billy is fit for 50 or 60, you play him!

[sendô]

Hmm, perhaps but it's nice seeing Billy V coming off the bench with 30 to go and destroying tired forwards.

[3times]

Hmm, perhaps but it's nice seeing Billy V coming off the bench with 30 to go and destroying tired forwards.

But you have got mako & Sinkler to do that!!

[bristolhammerfc]

Gavin Henson leaving Bristol at the end of the season to go to Newport.

I wonder if Bristol have been given a heads up on a new expanded league and so no relegation.

[hammerdivone]

So Conor Murray out of the final game due to injury, not sure how much of a blow that is considering his performance against Wales?

[dave_l]

Gavin Henson leaving Bristol at the end of the season to go to Newport.

I wonder if Bristol have been given a heads up on a new expanded league and so no relegation.

It'd be difficult to change the promotion and relegation procedure so late.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a closed league sometime soon much as I don't like the concept. The owners of the clubs who just throw money around would love it! Any team that produces England players loses them for half a season which certainly affects the final standings and subsequent euro qualifications if not who wins the league. Not needing to worry so much about relegation would mean the young players could be tried more freely. It's also realistic that most of the championship would damage themselves to reach premiership criteria (see London Welsh aided and abetted by greedy and incompetent owners).

On the flip side it feels wrong that essentially no team can aspire to win the championship and be promoted.

[bristolhammerfc]

Yep. I notice that for next season they have already removed the playoff format, which improves the chances of a relegated team going straight back up.

In terms of an expanded league, I can see a 14 team league with Yorkshire and London Irish Bristol.

Most championship clubs are discussing going semi pro.

Bristol are still signing top players with no break clauses which is odd if relegation happens (which looks likely).