NFL Thread 2017/18

[WCpete]

Two things that have jumped out for me over the past two weekends. First, there was some really poor officiating across all of the games which is unusual. Generally the NFL refs are very good, but there have been some bad calls made in these playoffs. Secondly, the play reviewing seemed to take a lot longer than usual, and there seemed to be a lot more of them. It has felt more intrusive than ever before.

[warp]

Generally the NFL refs are very good

debatable.

Secondly, the play reviewing seemed to take a lot longer than usual, and there seemed to be a lot more of them. It has felt more intrusive than ever before.

completely agree on this one, "two challenges each team" my arse.
as you say, too many (every scoring play, every turnover, every dodgy play inside of the final two minutes of every half), and they take too long (don't they have a bloke in NY having the final say?).
even the commentators have started talking about it.
sometimes it is clear the play doesn't need reviewing and they still spend three minutes watching three replays.


it also encourages refs to let the play continue even if they think it shouldn't, cos they can later review it.
but then they need clear evidence to overturn a decision they didn't think it was right in the first place, and they may not have it. i think there was a borderline case last season.

[WCpete]

Was in the stadium for the Vikings game today. Have never seen anything like that. Incredible. People were crying.

Noise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18A9j5H ... e=youtu.be

[bitter-iron-ny]

Generally the NFL refs are very good

debatable.

Very

Secondly, the play reviewing seemed to take a lot longer than usual, and there seemed to be a lot more of them. It has felt more intrusive than ever before.

completely agree on this one, "two challenges each team" my arse.....

Will disagree with you gentlemen on this count. I think it's important to get it right as much as possible. It certainly helps limit the ability of a single official to impact the outcome of a game (The NFL has gone to great pains for decades to bury episodes of officials being bought off by gambling interests. Some players too but that's a different story.) Can they improve it? Sure. I think college football's setup of having plays reviewed on large screen hi def TVs in the booth is far preferable to the referee running over to the side of the field and looking at a tablet. Although the expertise when it comes to interpreting the rules on the college level is definitely suspect, it should be possible to combine the better understanding of the rules in the pros with the logistics of college. Although as I think about it, there were episodes (Jets screwed in consecutive weeks) where the league did weigh in with the on-field referee to disallow scores despite the lack of clear evidence to justify it. So yes, room for improvement, but a handful of delays are worth it to me if it means remedying a poor call. I even have some sympathy for Belichick's view that everything should be reviewable: https://www.si.com/nfl/audibles/2014/03 ... lenge-rule

[WCpete]

Except that when put side by side in the very same games where egregiously bad penalty calls were made highlights the ridiculousness of the refereeing penalty calls.

I'll concede that the refs aren't what I said they were. You lot watch weekly and I'm a fair weather playoffs watcher these days. It's been a long while since I watched religiously. Anyhow, with that many line judges, backfield judges, refs etc., there ought not to be mistakes made.

[bitter-iron-ny]

Except that when put side by side in the very same games where egregiously bad penalty calls were made highlights the ridiculousness of the refereeing penalty calls.

I'll concede that the refs aren't what I said they were. You lot watch weekly and I'm a fair weather playoffs watcher these days. It's been a long while since I watched religiously. Anyhow, with that many line judges, backfield judges, refs etc., there ought not to be mistakes made.

I always hated the Oilers but....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8gCDIQ7_Nw

[WCpete]

Yeah, I remember it well. I didn't hate the Oilers. They were good but they were always pretenders. It was always fun to watch Campbell run. He was such a beast.

Anyway, I'm not arguing that instant replay should go away, only that from what I've seen in the last 2 weeks that the league has become extremely reliant on it.

[bitter-iron-ny]

seen in the last 2 weeks that the league has become extremely reliant on it.

Which underscores that the refs on the field are not doing a good job. And that also applies to the universe of calls that are not reviewable. Offensive holding and pass interference seemingly have no standard. The teams scout the refs for a reason, because these guys have tendencies - also probably biases. Also, having replay rewards coaches who know the rules and know when to challenge (Coughlin's % was excellent) while punishing those who do not, like Andy Reid (historically) and Sean Payton (yesterday).

[WCpete]

Maybe they should have an on-field webmaster and just put a camera on every player and have AI make the calls from Silicon Valley.

[bitter-iron-ny]

Maybe they should have an on-field webmaster and just put a camera on every player and have AI make the calls from Silicon Valley.

Be dismissive if you want, but I'd definitely would have taken a review for pass interference on the last play of the 2002 Giants-49ers Wildcard game

[WCpete]

I'm not being dismissive bny. Just fooling around.

I was at that game.Probably would have helped if we had tackled owens on their first touchdown too. You can't review for pass interference or non interference in this case, right? I believe we also got called for an ineligible receiver downfield when in fact the guard who got called, can't remember who it was, had checked in as a receiver. So, they blew 2 calls on that play. My buddy and I took holy hell after that loss from the fans around us. I hated 49er fans. Up until the last few years before they left the city they were the softest, whiniest least knowledgeable fans I had experienced. Last few years Candlestick turned ugly. There was a lot of fighting, stabbings car break ins. I think their family fans bailed on them near the end. Now it's all south bay people that go.

[bitter-iron-ny]

Yeah, their fans are definitely a bunch of frontrunners. Completely MIA until they were winning and once their dynasty crumbled it was tumbleweeds again. Same thing happened when Harbaugh came and went.

With that play, I was hypothesizing the Belichick scenario that everything would be reviewable. If I thought about it I could probably come up with several additional involving other teams, but that one in particular annoys me more than just about anything I have witnessed in sports. Mannygate definitely up there too. Don't think I'll ever be able to let go

[warp]

love me some bitter giants (yeah it was a **** call)

i'm ok with everything being reviewable, less so with everything being reviewed, which seems the case lately.

the last two minutes of a game should be exciting, not broken up every time there is a slight chance that a catch was maybe, possibly, who knows not really a catch.

[sanchoz]

Marcus Williams deserves full credit for standing there in front of his locker and facing the press afterwards. A horrible spot for him and he showed great character by patiently taking questions and assuming total responsibility for his play. Only a rookie, hope he goes on to have a long and successful career.

Very much so. In a strange way it could be the making of him.

[bitter-iron-ny]

Very much so. In a strange way it could be the making of him.

Have read some breakdowns of the formation used and how it had serious gaps that were totally unnecessary. Coaches deserve blame for putting the players in position where failure is unnecessarily a possibility.,

[WCpete]

Did he ever clarify what he was doing on that play? I can only think he was trying to avoid the pass interference.

[WCpete]

love me some bitter giants (yeah it was a **** call)

i'm ok with everything being reviewable, less so with everything being reviewed, which seems the case lately.

the last two minutes of a game should be exciting, not broken up every time there is a slight chance that a catch was maybe, possibly, who knows not really a catch.

To me it was the best rivalry of the 80's. Better than the Cowboys v Niners, although I'm sure San Jose 49ers fans would dispute that. There were some great, great games played. Poor Joe Montana took an absolute beating over those years.

[warp]

yep, i hate the giants waaaaaaay more than the cowboys. maybe cos one of the first games i remember was the 15-13 championship game (i clearly remember both teams literally praying before/during the FG, that looked ****ing stupid even when i was 8).

Did he ever clarify what he was doing on that play? I can only think he was trying to avoid the pass interference.

yep, i think so. would have been about a 50 yards field goal for the vikes, so maybe not the worst mistake.
he mistimed his run, realized it too late.

[WCpete]

Love that game. I remember calling Meggett's halfback option right before the play happened, and Mo' Carthon dropped it. Maurice is one of my all time Giants but that hurt. And when Bahr won it, I broke my finger on the ceiling ( we had a very low ceiling). I was in a crouch during the kick and when the ball cleared the uprights I jumped straight up and jammed my fingers into the ceiling. It was worth it.

That game and the Monday Night 7-3 49er win when both teams were 10-1 were among the hardest hitting games I've seen. That was my favorite era of football, tbh.

[bitter-iron-ny]

The Gary Reasons fake punt!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IthfQ9qFZ_8

Ah, Summerall and Madden...