Ironman advice

[White Goodman]

I'm entered in the Lanzarote ironman next May and I've already starting converting my conditioning across from rowing.

I'm not unfamiliar with endurance events having run the Comrades in South Africa (56 miles), South Downs 80 mile race in the 90s and various other ultras.

I competed in triathlon as well but only as far as Olympic distance events . I also completed CTCRM albeit in 1994.

Whilst I know I have the mental capacity for this, my biggest fear is injury in the next 10 months plus little experience of the event itself.


I do intend on a couple of half ironman events prior and am already at around 15 to 20 hours training per week. I'd like to get under 10 hours but think sub11 is more likely. However, I appreciate it could be much worse

I know CB has some good tri experience but wondered if anyone had any good advice thney could pass on.

Cheers

[DasNutNock]

Google Rob Gray Ironman. Used to work with him, top lad. Has switched to ultra man events but is still a high ranking IM athlete. He's a prolific blogger and is also a private coach now - you'd do a lot worse than to ready his blog. Robgray.org

[White Goodman]

Cheers Dan, I'll take a look

[Clucking Bell]

IM Lanzarote is a tough 'un.

I did it the second year they ran it, '93 I think so I was 29 at the time. The swim was fine, the first half of the bike until you get up to Club La Santa is OK but, the last 100k on the bike is pretty tough. Lots of long climbs and when you're not climbing, you've got a headwind.

I used to train out there pretty often so I knew where all the nasty bits were and I really dialed it back so I could run a solid marathon.

I'll see if I can dig out my actual splits but, I think that was my 9:33 effort. I know I ran a 3:03 marathon and the swim was about an hour flat and then ten minutes ****ing about in transition, so my bike split must have been around 5:20 which was a good half-hour slower than I could have ridden it at the time.

The secret of IM racing is simply that if you ever feel like you're trying, you're going too fast.

The training is all about time.

I only swam three times a week but, I'd swim 6,000m every time. So that's six hours. On the bike, I'd try to ride four times a week. One of them would be 100-120 miles on my own. I'd also go for a 60 mile club burn-up and do a couple of two- hour rides either outside or on the turbo in the week. That's another fifteen hours. I didn't do much running. I did a 20 miler most Saturdays which took about 2:30 and then seven milers three times a week. They were all club runs so I'd be shifting then - round about 6 min/mile.

That's about 23 hours of actual training and you can probably add another seven hours of to-ing and fro-ing. However, that wasn't particularly efficient.

If I was still doing it now, I'd probably drop one of the seven milers, cut a couple thousand off of two of the swim sessions and add a couple of weights sessions. That would then be 20 hours plus a couple of 45 minute weight sessions. I'd also do at least half a dozen days when I'd do my long bike and long run on the same day i.e. a good eight hours of solid training.

One of the things that kills everyone is that they're not used to long training days. If you're a forty-something age grouper, you're not going to be going sub-10. Unless you've got a really solid biking or running background i.e. you can ride a 25mile/40km time trial in less than an hour and run a sub-38 min 10k you're probably looking at around 12 hours and that's a long time to be on your feet! You need to get used to it.

I'm no swimmer. My best 1,500m time in a 50m pool is 20:09 and my best IM swim split is 58 minutes. On dry land, I'm a lot better: I've gone sub-52 minutes for a 25 mile time trial and have done a 4:40 IM bike split. My best half marathon is 1:09 (I've never run a decent marathon - best is 2:32 which isn't very good when you're trying for 2:24) My best IM run split is 2:53. My point here is that your average speed on the bike is going to be about 5 mph slower than your average speed during a 40k TT time. If your IM marathon split is within half an hour of your standalone best time, you're doing well.

I don't want to pee on your bonfire but, unless you're exceeding good at biking or running already, you won't be going sub-10 and I'd probably think of sub-11 as a very stretch goal.

I've coached a fair few other people over the years and I reckon that a) if you don't have any particular background in any of the disciplines b) you actually do all the training rather than miss half the long runs and long rides and c) get your weight down to Belsen levels, the following is reasonable:

Swim - 1:15 (1:25 including both transitions)
Bike - 6:00 (I'd normally say 5:30 but, Lanzarote is hilly!)
Run - 4:00 (This is mostly mental - the trick is to get to 20 without walking and then it's just a mile at a time)

This would bring you in around 11:30 and that ain't bad! The problem arises if you run the first half of the marathon in 1:45 (8:30/mile pace) but then have to walk the rest. A six-hour marathon is no fun.

My advice would be to enter a lumpy 40k TT and a 10k run. If you can go sub-1:05 for the TT and sub-42 for the 10k, those times in the previous paragraph will be reasonable in ten months' time.

The weight thing is really important and the hillier the course, the more important it is. I'm 6'1" and I'd race at 10 st 7. Even if you're 6'3" you'll probably need to get down under 12 stone.

Equipment-wise, I'd buy a power meter for your bike and get a good bike fit.

Hope this helps!

I also hope that Mrs. Whitey is a very understanding woman!

[DasNutNock]

I should also point out that my sister's husband is a prolific IM competitor and I'm fairly confident they're going to be divorced by the end of the year.

[White Goodman]

IM Lanzarote is a tough 'un.

I did it the second year they ran it, '93 I think so I was 29 at the time. The swim was fine, the first half of the bike until you get up to Club La Santa is OK but, the last 100k on the bike is pretty tough. Lots of long climbs and when you're not climbing, you've got a headwind.

I used to train out there pretty often so I knew where all the nasty bits were and I really dialed it back so I could run a solid marathon.

I'll see if I can dig out my actual splits but, I think that was my 9:33 effort. I know I ran a 3:03 marathon and the swim was about an hour flat and then ten minutes ****ing about in transition, so my bike split must have been around 5:20 which was a good half-hour slower than I could have ridden it at the time.

The secret of IM racing is simply that if you ever feel like you're trying, you're going too fast.

The training is all about time.

I only swam three times a week but, I'd swim 6,000m every time. So that's six hours. On the bike, I'd try to ride four times a week. One of them would be 100-120 miles on my own. I'd also go for a 60 mile club burn-up and do a couple of two- hour rides either outside or on the turbo in the week. That's another fifteen hours. I didn't do much running. I did a 20 miler most Saturdays which took about 2:30 and then seven milers three times a week. They were all club runs so I'd be shifting then - round about 6 min/mile.

That's about 23 hours of actual training and you can probably add another seven hours of to-ing and fro-ing. However, that wasn't particularly efficient.

If I was still doing it now, I'd probably drop one of the seven milers, cut a couple thousand off of two of the swim sessions and add a couple of weights sessions. That would then be 20 hours plus a couple of 45 minute weight sessions. I'd also do at least half a dozen days when I'd do my long bike and long run on the same day i.e. a good eight hours of solid training.

One of the things that kills everyone is that they're not used to long training days. If you're a forty-something age grouper, you're not going to be going sub-10. Unless you've got a really solid biking or running background i.e. you can ride a 25mile/40km time trial in less than an hour and run a sub-38 min 10k you're probably looking at around 12 hours and that's a long time to be on your feet! You need to get used to it.

I'm no swimmer. My best 1,500m time in a 50m pool is 20:09 and my best IM swim split is 58 minutes. On dry land, I'm a lot better: I've gone sub-52 minutes for a 25 mile time trial and have done a 4:40 IM bike split. My best half marathon is 1:09 (I've never run a decent marathon - best is 2:32 which isn't very good when you're trying for 2:24) My best IM run split is 2:53. My point here is that your average speed on the bike is going to be about 5 mph slower than your average speed during a 40k TT time. If your IM marathon split is within half an hour of your standalone best time, you're doing well.

I don't want to pee on your bonfire but, unless you're exceeding good at biking or running already, you won't be going sub-10 and I'd probably think of sub-11 as a very stretch goal.

I've coached a fair few other people over the years and I reckon that a) if you don't have any particular background in any of the disciplines b) you actually do all the training rather than miss half the long runs and long rides and c) get your weight down to Belsen levels, the following is reasonable:

Swim - 1:15 (1:25 including both transitions)
Bike - 6:00 (I'd normally say 5:30 but, Lanzarote is hilly!)
Run - 4:00 (This is mostly mental - the trick is to get to 20 without walking and then it's just a mile at a time)

This would bring you in around 11:30 and that ain't bad! The problem arises if you run the first half of the marathon in 1:45 (8:30/mile pace) but then have to walk the rest. A six-hour marathon is no fun.

My advice would be to enter a lumpy 40k TT and a 10k run. If you can go sub-1:05 for the TT and sub-42 for the 10k, those times in the previous paragraph will be reasonable in ten months' time.

The weight thing is really important and the hillier the course, the more important it is. I'm 6'1" and I'd race at 10 st 7. Even if you're 6'3" you'll probably need to get down under 12 stone.

Equipment-wise, I'd buy a power meter for your bike and get a good bike fit.

Hope this helps!

I also hope that Mrs. Whitey is a very understanding woman!

Cheers CB , she is. Although I think this might stretch her patience.

[White Goodman]

I should also point out that my sister's husband is a prolific IM competitor and I'm fairly confident they're going to be divorced by the end of the year.

I kind of just want to do the one so hopefully she'll be able to put up with that.

[White Goodman]

CB I have a sub 2.50 marathon time and a sub 34 clocking in the 10k back when I was 21 but that's a while back now and the second of those times was on the track.

I'm not expecting anything easy here , the only other IM that fitted in with my schedule was Boulder and I'm not sure I fancy my first one at altitude.

I'm 6 ft 3 , I'll struggle to get to 12 stone although I'm naturally ectomorphic. Most of the muscle added for rowing is manufactured, so there is a chance I could shed a fair bit.

[Nesticles]

Good luck with all of your training

Randomly I watched a short documentary last night about a man in his 50's who takes part often in Ironman challenges. Very inspiring stuff.

[White Goodman]

Good luck with all of your training

Randomly I watched a short documentary last night about a man in his 50's who takes part often in Ironman challenges. Very inspiring stuff.

Thanks mate. My biggest concern is remaining injury free , that's not been a strong point the last 5 years !

[Clucking Bell]

CB I have a sub 2.50 marathon time and a sub 34 clocking in the 10k back when I was 21 but that's a while back now and the second of those times was on the track.

Both of those are very decent times and even if you've slowed up a bit, if you think you can get to sub-7:30's for a marathon and sub-6:30's for 10k, you're in really good shape.

As far as managing injuries is concerned, I've had some success with increasing the amount of cycling and doing a lot of walking along with just the long run. But, yeah, not getting injured in training and getting to the start line is half the battle. Most of the rest of the battle is getting to the start of the run reasonably 'fresh'

If you can swing it, I'd also recommend a trip out there to have a few goes round the bike course. Club La Santa is the ideal base but, it's probably still a bit spendy.

[White Goodman]

As far as managing injuries is concerned, I've had some success with increasing the amount of cycling and doing a lot of walking along with just the long run. But, yeah, not getting injured in training and getting to the start line is half the battle. Most of the rest of the battle is getting to the start of the run reasonably 'fresh'

If you can swing it, I'd also recommend a trip out there to have a few goes round the bike course. Club La Santa is the ideal base but, it's probably still a bit spendy.

You're so right about dropping weight though. If I have to do all my training at my current weight it will be the end of me. My hips and calves feel like those of a 90 year old. Running is not fun at best part of 15 stone, I wanted to weep after the 7 miler I did at lunch.

I'm only at 10% bf so I guess I'm going to have to sacrifice muscle mass but I don't mind that for one event and suppose it's likely that I'm going to be in calorie deficit most days over the next 10 months.

I did have the thought that maybe around Christmas I'd head out there for a weekend if I can find time.

[hessa]

Firstly fair play to you WG for entering. I think CB has offered you a lot of good advice already.

For my part, I did Ironman Canada. A long time ago though, in 1995. I was 35 at the time. I'd been doing triathlon, running events for a good few years prior to that. Had PBs of sub 3hr marathon and 1.15 HM, so fairly decent base.
In hindsight I wouldn't say my training was particuarly structured, though it seemed to stand me in decent stead. I trained for the London Marathon that year and concentrated mainly on running until after the marathon.
I then was swimming about 3 times a week, usually an hour a time, mostly decent pace, but not structured sets. I was biking about 3 or four times a week. One of those was a mid week eyeballs out club ride of about 40 miles. I usually did a long ride of 80-100 miles on the Saturday, after early morning swim session. Sundays was usually 40-50 miles ride (good pace) and then 8-10 mile run straight off the bike. I'd do a long run midweek evening, that was anything between 15-20 miles.
I was a bit of a twat and was still boozing Friday and Saturday night and my diet wasn't that clever either. Pretty stupid really. I somehow made it to the start line in good shape, though the truth of that is that I was treading a fine line between being in the best shape (fitness wise) of my life or being seriously ill. I'm 5ft,10 and my weight went down to sub 10st. Not really a great look, though it certainly helps going up hills.
I ended up doing 10.31 which I was pretty happy with, I'd wanted to get under 11hrs. With hindsight I do regret not being better about my nutrition and boozing. Always wondered if I could have done better if I had been more disciplined with that side of things.
In terms of personal life, it does tend to take over a bit and Mrs WG will have a lot too put up with. The other thing is that a lot of people say they will only do one IM, but then want to do more. I wish I had, though I wanted to at the time, though knew it would mean the end of my relationship at the time if I did. With hindsight, it would have better if I had signed up for another! :lol:
Not sure that I have much to offer in the way of advice, I think there is a lot better training advice available now that there was then. I did use a pulse monitor during the race and aimed to keep my pulse below 145 for the bike, I never even looked at it during the run. I think that worked well for me as I never felt I overcooked it.
I did a pretty disappointing swim of about 1.09, 5.27 for the bike and 3.41 for the marathon. I also managed to waste about 13 minutes in transistion which is a lot of wasted time. Its a long day, so get the right kit on and be comfortable but I'd recommend practising your transistion routine, I didn't, I should have.
Lanzarote is a tough IM, I have rode some of the course, I went over there with a mate who raced IM.
From reading about your rowing etc, I think you obviously have the discipline and drive to accomplish this and achieve your goals. Good luck and keep us up to date.

[Clacton-ammer]

Outstanding thread

Good luck Whitey!

I can offer no advice......the only thing I know from a friend who competes is while in training, really listen to your body, as injuries really f*** up your training as you already know. Plus, you will have to lose some muscle mass, but again, you already know this! The muscle mass was the hardest part for my friend.

Keep us posted on your training!!

[White Goodman]

Thanks chaps.

Hessa that's useful advice , thank you.

Training is going pretty well , purchased a new bike, although probably need another one as whilst this will work well in the event, I don't think it will take me all the way through to next year. It's a bit highly strung

I like it a lot but need something more workman like.

[Clucking Bell]

.....purchased a new bike, although probably need another one as whilst this will work well in the event ......

Congratulations Whitey! It's taken you less than a fortnight to develop the classic 'n + 1' cycling problem.

This rigorously tested theory states that the number of bicycles that you need is always exactly one more than the number you have.

Mrs Bell's solution to this is to say, 'are you selling the Canyon then?' every time I test the waters with the words 'Pinarello F10'

On a serious note, I'd recommend doing all of your bike training on your race bike. Fundamentally, you are practicing spending the best part of six hours in one position and the sooner you get used to it, the better.

Obviously shopping is triathlon's fourth discipline but, I'd probably invest in training wheels and race wheels and I'd certainly get a power meter before adding to the bike collection.

[White Goodman]

Congratulations Whitey! It's taken you less than a fortnight to develop the classic 'n + 1' cycling problem.

This rigorously tested theory states that the number of bicycles that you need is always exactly one more than the number you have.

Mrs Bell's solution to this is to say, 'are you selling the Canyon then?' every time I test the waters with the words 'Pinarello F10'

On a serious note, I'd recommend doing all of your bike training on your race bike. Fundamentally, you are practicing spending the best part of six hours in one position and the sooner you get used to it, the better.

Obviously shopping is triathlon's fourth discipline but, I'd probably invest in training wheels and race wheels and I'd certainly get a power meter before adding to the bike collection.

Spot on. I've spent the last two weeks looking at bikes whenever possible and I told her yesterday that I needed another one. Having just spent £3k on one two weeks ago.

She just looked at me as if I was mental .

Talking of mental, I know someone on Instagram who was given a Pinarello F10 gratis because he spent so long on there moaning about his bipolar that a well known cyclist organised it for him.

Seemed to cheer him up no end !!

[hessa]

Don't worry, once you start ramping up your training, you'll be too tired to shop! :lol:

Thought might be worth mentioning that a few of us went to Canada to do IM and one of our group completed his swim in 59 mins. What irritated the f*** out of me was that I had been dusting him in the pool. He had raced a few IM before though and was far more race savvy than I was. I did most of my swim training in the pool and in hindsight not enough open water swimming. He managed to latch onto the back of a decent little group at the start of the swim and stayed in their wake. If I had done another one, I'd have increased my open water swimming and done some warm up events to trial stuff like my swim drafting.

I think CB's advice about race wheels and training wheels is pretty sound. I have no experience of power meters, after my time. But sounds like a good idea. I wouldn't really go along with the do all your training on your race bike, though its obviously important to get plenty of long rides in using it. Though as CB was way quicker than me, your probably better of paying attention to his advice!

[Clucking Bell]

I think CB's advice about race wheels and training wheels is pretty sound. I have no experience of power meters, after my time. But sounds like a good idea. I wouldn't really go along with the do all your training on your race bike, though its obviously important to get plenty of long rides in using it. Though as CB was way quicker than me, your probably better of paying attention to his advice!

Thanks for the vote of confidence but I've been well on the road to mediocre for a couple of decades now.

My advice in respect of training on your race bike is really one of specificity. Basically, you get what you train for and the training to ride a 112 mile road race or a century gran fondo isn't the same as that to ride a 112 IM bike leg.

A road race is variable effort. I'm pretty much always drafting and if it's a flattish race, I might only be full gas towards the end and there will probably be substantial periods when I'm not pedaling at all. I've won plenty of races where I've done bugger all for three hours and lit the afterburners for twelve seconds.

The bike leg of a triathlon is nothing like that. It's all about consistent effort and efficiency. The two hardest things are staying in your aero position and not mentally switching off. That's why heart monitors and power meters are so useful: they warn you when you're going to hard and they also warn you when you're daydreaming or have otherwise switched off and are away with the fairies and not working hard enough.

I think that if I were able to go back to IM competitions, I'd definitely follow the Maffetone method that Mark Allen used to great success. It doesn't preclude high intensity training and speed work but, its focus is on developing your maximum aerobic function and your efficiency at that effort level. Google Phil Maffetone for more details.

[White Goodman]

Will look into a power meter CB as I noticed myself idling on a 50 miler the other day.

Switched off for about 7 or 8 miles , HR down to about 110 and just bimbling along at a pace which will mean the bike section will take me until 2020.