The Ashes 2017/18

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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby chigwells finest on Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:29 pm

god we were awful bar about 3 sessions out of 15 .
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby westlondonhammer on Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:33 pm

Tenbury wrote:Come on mate, you're too smart to extrapolate figures from a mere ten matches, which include the farcical Pakistan/ UAE pitches.
Even Boycott, Root's number1,2,3 and 4 apologist, thinks the treatment of Rashid has been bonkers.


I'm not sure what you're talking about - he f/c (first class) average is based on over 150 matches at over 35.

Leach's f/c average is just over 26 - albeit from a lower number of games, but still enough to be meaningful.

So are you telling me there is nothing to suggest he is the best test spinner we have?
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby jacko on Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:40 pm

to be fair to Rashid I don't think he could have done any worse than Ali.

I think Leach has been unlucky. England need to take a better look at him.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby Slacking student on Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:57 pm

This is an interesting article on the recent ashes

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/ ... appointing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The following passage about Anderson is startling and shows that he wasn't as effective as first meets the eye. Also shows how poor the rest of them were in Aussie conditions

In the first 30 overs of the five first innings in the series, Jimmy Anderson took one wicket for 92 runs.
Prior to this series, since the start of the 2010 English summer that marked the beginning of his lengthy peak phase as a Test bowler, Anderson's figures for the first 30 overs in the first innings of Tests had been 87 wickets at an average of 21.7.

Anderson's overall average this series was almost the same as he managed in England's victories in 2010-11 and 2015, and better than 2013. However, in the 2010-11 Ashes campaign, he took 7 for 111 in that phase of the five Tests, with three wickets in the win in Adelaide, and two at the MCG. He took 3 for 39 in the first 30 of England's series-opening Trent Bridge win in 2013, and 5 for 23 at Edgbaston in 2015 as they rebounded from their Lord's humiliation.

England have won 20 of the 31 Tests in which Anderson has struck twice or more in the opening 30 overs of the first innings (with four draws and seven defeats, including five wins in six Ashes Tests).

Anderson bowled excellently throughout this series, but he was unable to shape any of the Tests with early strikes - his one first-30-overs first-innings scalp was Peter Handscomb, leg before wicket in the 25th over in Brisbane. (In his last 11 away Tests, his only other scalp in this phase of matches was M Vijay, caught at gully in the fifth over of the Visakhapatnam Test last winter.)
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby Tenbury on Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:17 pm

WLH, I thought you were talking about test avs.I'm not sure given the Loughborough thing,how relevant fc aves are in respect to test potential these days,what relevance does the county championship have?
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby westlondonhammer on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:16 pm

What does Loughborough's performance centre have to do with Rashid's first class record?

It is very relevant... it's where English players develop. It's kinda like asking what impact the Premiership has on selecting England players...

Rashid's recent record in first class cricket is poor because he is much better in limited overs cricket rather than long format... hence why his few tests haven't been that good. Whereas Leach has a far superior recent record (he was top wicket taker the season before last).

Do you follow much first class cricket out of interest?
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby jacko on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:39 pm

I think Rashid has something. I think he'll play for England again. I would like to see Leach given a chance - I don't understand why he wasn't taken. TO be honest, I think the squad we picked was really weird but there weren't many other options available. .

One thing I will say is that there is a big gap between county cricket and test cricket. There are plenty of people who have scored bags of runs and taken many wickets who just aren't ever going to make it a test level.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby westlondonhammer on Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:23 am

jacko wrote:I think Rashid has something. I think he'll play for England again. I would like to see Leach given a chance - I don't understand why he wasn't taken. TO be honest, I think the squad we picked was really weird but there weren't many other options available. .

One thing I will say is that there is a big gap between county cricket and test cricket. There are plenty of people who have scored bags of runs and taken many wickets who just aren't ever going to make it a test level.


There is no doubting Rashid's talent... but if he pulls back his attacking intent to become a better long form player than that will impact his limited overs abilities for me. There's something to be said for not trying to be an expert at everything and focusing in cricket nowadays... he might just be meh at both instead of really good at one and meh at the other.

I agree that there certainly is a huge gap between county cricket and test cricket... so it stands to reason that if a player has an average record at county level it's not going to be any better at international level? The biggest argument a players record may improve is the type of pitch... Leach for example has much better home conditions to work with for spinning than Rashid, but then again that also drives the argument that the practice he gets on wickets that are more spin friendly would better equip him.

Long term we have to look at Bess and Crane... if they're talents can be harnessed we have 2 potential good spinners on our hands.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby Tenbury on Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:09 am

20or so years ago I watched a lot of county cricket,but not now,don't have the time.Shame really,as New Road isn't far at all.
As with a lot of sports, Sky changed cricket out of all recognition,( if not Sky themselves,then other media conglomerates using the Sky template).
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby Loftyhammer on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:37 pm

County stats are deceptive either way....Tres and Vaughan both had unremarkable averages; but you could tell straight away they were class. Which is why Bayliss is the wrong appointment at least for Test cricket as he knows very little about and doesn’t really watch any county games
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby chigwells finest on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:38 pm

we went to austrailia, with an aging bowling attack , and 2 of our faster bowlwrs in stokes and finn out of the team , we didnt have a top flight spinner , the aussies had a top class spinner and 3 top quality quicks , all of whom stayed injury free .

dont know whether you can blame the county circuit , its not ideal , we've only won over there 3 times in 40 years havent we ?
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby westham,eggyandchips on Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:38 pm

Loftyhammer wrote:Which is why Bayliss is the wrong appointment at least for Test cricket as he knows very little about and doesn’t really watch any county games


Very much this :thup:
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby jacko on Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:00 pm

I really like Bayliss. I'm not sure we lost the ashes because of him.

He does seem a one day specialist. I don't see why we can't have a coach for the test side and one for the one day/T20.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby sendô on Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:23 pm

At the very least we need to look to get some variation in our attack.

Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Overton, Ball and Curran were all used vs Australia but all are the same style of bowler - right arm medium fast. It was the same thing every time. Even having a left handed fast medium pacer might have made more of a difference, changing the angle coming into the right handers.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby jacko on Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:52 pm

I 100 percent agree with that. For me that was the problem with our squad. You can't dig up fast bowlers from nowhere but you absolutely have to have a bit of variety with your bowlers. We had none. Medium-fast all the way through.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby westlondonhammer on Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:24 pm

RE Bayliss: Morgan's comments about a 1 coach approach being a thing of the past soon was spot on. Bayliss and Fabrace are both excellent limited overs coaches... but we've not got better in the test arena. If anything, at times we've moved players from the limited overs space to test to fill gaps rather than look at proper long form players. Hales, Malan, Tom Curran, Vince, Buttler, Rashid - all better limited overs players played in the last few years to fill in gaps. It could even be argued that Ali is a better limited overs player...

The future is specialism (like we've seen in the limited overs team) with only the best stepping across formats (Root, Bairstow, Stokes). Players will need to decide early - do I want to win the world cup or the Ashes?

I strongly believe that sooner or later Silverwood will be the man to take the reigns of the test team. He's done a fabulous job at Essex (moreso in the 4 day games than limited overs) and I do believe focus is needed. A Silverwood (test) - Fabrace (limited overs) team could really work beyond 2019 when Bayliss goes.

Bayliss and Fabrace have worked miracles with the one day team however - today showed that. What a great win.

Roy - take a bow... Wood - excellent... Root - fantastic

This one day team can best anyone anywhere... while the test team can be anyone at home, but isn't equipt to beat teams away from home
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby Loftyhammer on Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:18 pm

Great performance and top knocks from both Roy and Root....but am afraid for me we could win these ODIs 5-0 but wouldn’t even get close to making up for getting tonked in the Ashes
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby sendô on Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:12 am

It's a funny old game cricket. A few years back we were number one in tests but utter tosh in ODIs. Now we're very much in transition in tests but look world beaters in ODIs.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby westham,eggyandchips on Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:47 am

sendô wrote:It's a funny old game cricket. A few years back we were number one in tests but utter tosh in ODIs. Now we're very much in transition in tests but look world beaters in ODIs.


This goes back to the Bayliss appointment I believe.
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Re: The Ashes 2017/18

Postby Loftyhammer on Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:07 pm

Stokes charged with Affray then....anybody know what that means in terms of potential sentence?
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