1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
Moderator: Gnome
- Bobby Orangeboom
- Posts: 34465
- Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:10 pm
- Location: London, unfortunately.
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
PM Sent Grant & Mr Orangeboom is now on a Man Hunt for you know who & i think i may have a lead already...
- Cuenca 'ammer
- ex 'ouston 'ammer
- Posts: 40715
- Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:19 pm
- Location: Journey to the dead of night. High on a hill in Eldorado
- Has liked: 1903 likes
- Total likes: 1613 likes
- Bobby Orangeboom
- Posts: 34465
- Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:10 pm
- Location: London, unfortunately.
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
Apparently Profs can't afford 300 Quid... :lol:Cuenca 'ammer wrote:Flog the Prof the last shirt....
:lol:
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
Bobby.... PM and e-mail in return, and yes I would love to hear what you know who has to say about it....Bobby Orangeboom wrote:PM Sent Grant & Mr Orangeboom is now on a Man Hunt for you know who & i think i may have a lead already...
Other readers.... Bobby has asked me in the interests of being open to publish the e-mail, I'm not going to put e-mails sent personally just to me on an open forum as I wouldn't do that to anybody, but so as to go as far as is possible I have published below an edited extract of the e-mail. Bobby and UtJ have had the e-mail itself....
For those who may not know John Hellier is the official WHU historian....
UtJ.... Our thanks must be due to you in all of this, without your interest and role in it, and of course without the forum itself we would never be able to get to the bottom of it.
On 30/09/2009 10:48, *************** wrote:
Hi Grant - source for the pink and black shirt was a correspondent, *****************, who recalled reading the details in an old match programme which he believed had been written by John Hellier.
This was later challenged by two club historians and subsequently by John Hellier himself in an article he published in a match programme in August of this year, which produced definitive evidence (from contemporary records which you are familiar with) that their colours were light blue and claret. ************* himself wrote to me to point this out and acknowledge his error.
It is, of course, impossible to prove a negative so I hope you won't waste your time searching for a primary source for the pink shirt - there isn't one. There was an honest mistake by someone whose memory later proved faulty.
Bobby informs me that there are a few shirts left, so get in there now, you'll never buy yourself a shirt with more of a story to it than this one
- Romford
- Big X
- Posts: 39027
- Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:16 pm
- Location: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYyxdmHogLU
- Contact:
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
The intro took too long so i f@cked it off...Bobby Orangeboom wrote:They're on here, make sure you've got your Cold Flannel handy... :lol:
http://www.gsretro.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You do them in Mans sizes matey
- Romford
- Big X
- Posts: 39027
- Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:16 pm
- Location: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYyxdmHogLU
- Contact:
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
I'm still waiting for loads from Punters in Beijing...only got one lot so far.Bobby Orangeboom wrote:
I've got a special Picture for you, you just wait there one moment... :lol:
You two got any ?
- Hambrosia Stu
- Posts: 18222
- Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:03 pm
- Location: Deepest, darkest, Devonia
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
Great thread lads!
It's like a proper whodunnit!!!
My money has always been on blue (...in the study with the candlestick), FWIW. Even in the days when Bobby was getting his girly pink, ahem, I mean, manly salmon shirts together,( ) I was totally dubious that we ever wore salmon. Call it a gut reaction. Hardly scientific, but I'm sure Columbo would know what I mean!
Anyway, very interesting stuff. And although I seem to be mocking Bob's pink shirts, and certainly didn't buy one, it does just show what an excellent site this is for both excellent info, and for top fellas trying to do a favour for others
It's like a proper whodunnit!!!
My money has always been on blue (...in the study with the candlestick), FWIW. Even in the days when Bobby was getting his girly pink, ahem, I mean, manly salmon shirts together,( ) I was totally dubious that we ever wore salmon. Call it a gut reaction. Hardly scientific, but I'm sure Columbo would know what I mean!
Anyway, very interesting stuff. And although I seem to be mocking Bob's pink shirts, and certainly didn't buy one, it does just show what an excellent site this is for both excellent info, and for top fellas trying to do a favour for others
- Bobby Orangeboom
- Posts: 34465
- Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:10 pm
- Location: London, unfortunately.
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
In a Departure Lounge at the minute so will send you them on Email over teh weekend when i get Home..Romford wrote:
I'm still waiting for loads from Punters in Beijing...only got one lot so far.
You two got any ?
PS : ****ed it off my arse.. :lol:
- mokum hammer
- Posts: 9408
- Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:47 pm
- Location: Mokum
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
The programme in question was from 24th August 1974Up the Junction wrote: I was reading a old programme from the mid 1970s recently that confirmed our away kit would be changing from sky blue shirts with claret and blue bands to all white. I'm pretty sure there was something in there about the history of alternative kits, I'll see if I can dig it out.
A game I went to
Last edited by mokum hammer on Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- clawhammer
- Posts: 7590
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 8:58 pm
- Has liked: 1 like
- Total likes: 20 likes
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
I repeat. If Bobby O would like to produce a pale blue or whatever replica of the shirt we wore in 1901-1902 to the same standard as my SALMON one then I would buy it.
-
- Posts: 18466
- Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:17 pm
- Location: Kumb Poster of the year 2009
- Has liked: 640 likes
- Total likes: 844 likes
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
This discussion has spilled into the official match program for yesterday.
Someone called Dave Smith asked the question as regards the salmon/pink shirts.
John Helliar's reply was along the lines of that is never happened -so no pink shirts apparently.
Someone called Dave Smith asked the question as regards the salmon/pink shirts.
John Helliar's reply was along the lines of that is never happened -so no pink shirts apparently.
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
Have you got the programme ? If so could you post the exact wording for us please.mushy wrote:This discussion has spilled into the official match program for yesterday.
Someone called Dave Smith asked the question as regards the salmon/pink shirts.
John Helliar's reply was along the lines of that is never happened -so no pink shirts apparently.
We are fairly sure that we know what happened now, that it was a mistake that should never have been listed as official and that's why I was unable to find any primary references for pink kit, because there never were any...
However, Bobby, UtJ, and myself all agree that ideally we would like to question the person who made the mistake so as to be 100% certain of what happened.
- Albie Beck
- Posts: 9649
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:42 am
- Has liked: 618 likes
- Total likes: 639 likes
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
:shock: Watch out!Ironworx wrote: However, Bobby, UtJ, and myself all agree that ideally we would like to question the person who made the mistake so as to be 100% certain of what happened.
:lol:
- clawhammer
- Posts: 7590
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 8:58 pm
- Has liked: 1 like
- Total likes: 20 likes
- Ted Fenton
- Posts: 4253
- Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:28 am
- Location: Rural Sevilla & the quieter part of Costa del Sol, sunny Spain
- Has liked: 1 like
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
He's been swayed by this thread.mushy wrote:This discussion has spilled into the official match program for yesterday.
Someone called Dave Smith asked the question as regards the salmon/pink shirts.
John Helliar's reply was along the lines of that is never happened -so no pink shirts apparently.
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
It's such an odd story of somebody saying that they saw an old matchday programme article by John Hellier in which he mentioned pink kit, and of that being accepted on no more than his word without his producing the article, then staying of false good provenance for a number of years and even being copied by other websites before being challenged as wrong and John Hellier denying that such an article was ever written.....Albie Beck wrote: :shock: Watch out!
:lol:
That we would like to rule out any possibility of the guy having seen something substantive, even though no primary source for pink kit can be found now and we're informed that there never was one.
-
- Posts: 18466
- Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:17 pm
- Location: Kumb Poster of the year 2009
- Has liked: 640 likes
- Total likes: 844 likes
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
I actually do not, I borrowed one from a neighbour at half time, hence my sketchiness to the exact wording. I can get a copy but will probabaly take a couple of days.Ironworx wrote: Have you got the programme ? If so could you post the exact wording for us please.
We are fairly sure that we know what happened now, that it was a mistake that should never have been listed as official and that's why I was unable to find any primary references for pink kit, because there never were any...
However, Bobby, UtJ, and myself all agree that ideally we would like to question the person who made the mistake so as to be 100% certain of what happened.
In the meantime surely someone on here has a copy of Sundays match programme?
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
mushy wrote:I actually do not, I borrowed one from a neighbour at half time, hence my sketchiness to the exact wording. I can get a copy but will probabaly take a couple of days.
In the meantime surely someone on here has a copy of Sundays match programme?
I would have thought so yes. Anybody got a copy of the Fulham programme and can post the bit about the pink shirts here for us ?
It would be much appreciated if somebody could.....
- Up the Junction
- Thinks he owns the place
- Posts: 70931
- Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:03 am
- Has liked: 744 likes
- Total likes: 3444 likes
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
I'll scan it when I get a mo.
Nothing in there we don't already know FWIW, just Helliar reiterating his earlier piece with no new evidence to substantiate it. Perhaps John could post on this thread and tell us why he's convinced his story is the correct one.
FWIW, Historical kits are still listing 'Article by John Hellier provided by David Smith & Kevin Slade' as a source.
Nothing in there we don't already know FWIW, just Helliar reiterating his earlier piece with no new evidence to substantiate it. Perhaps John could post on this thread and tell us why he's convinced his story is the correct one.
FWIW, Historical kits are still listing 'Article by John Hellier provided by David Smith & Kevin Slade' as a source.
Re: 1901/02 WHU Kit, It Was.................
As I understand it UtJ the pink kits were listed as 'Article by John Hellier provided by David Smith (?) / Kevin Slade' and that referred to the old article that never was....Up the Junction wrote:I'll scan it when I get a mo.
Nothing in there we don't already know FWIW, just Helliar reiterating his earlier piece with no new evidence to substantiate it. Perhaps John could post on this thread and tell us why he's convinced his story is the correct one.
FWIW, Historical kits are still listing 'Article by John Hellier provided by David Smith & Kevin Slade' as a source.
I did look for a cached version of the site so as to check up on that for sure, but they were more recent than the pink kits....
But now the same wording refers to the Tottenham matchday programme article by John Hellier that was submitted by David Smith and Kevin Slade - same correpondent/s, different John Hellier article....
I am of the view that what is needed is an irrefutable source from 1900-03, something like a newspaper report or a club handbook or programme and I have been in touch with Steve Marsh in an attempt to find that.
BTW, while researching I did find an 1899 newspaper report confirming that Thames Ironworks played in Castle blue over white over scarlet in that year too, and HK have extended the dating of that kit to include 1899 accordingly.