Sadly whatever we think will make no difference with any new owners, though I support Zola and Clarke and would be annoyed to see them leave. With this backing from MS, do we have the agreement then if Hughes takes over and we go down! then Hughes goes without delay?MS in the West wrote:Hughes for me all day long. We'll do better under Hughes than Zola, and there is no reason why, with Hughes and a competent Board/owners we can't.
Don't sack Zola
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- jaybs
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Re: Don't sack Zola
- Hambrosia Stu
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Re: Don't sack Zola
I think to suggest their form has plummetted is over egging it a tadhadleighhammer wrote:Upson and Green's form has plummeted this season. Noble doesn't look like a Prem player IMO. Ilumga is nowhere near as good as last seaso, for whatever reason. Same for Collison,
Cole, Parker, Faubert, and now even Kovac look better than last season IMO though.
Green is the only one I have any concern over. And yesterday's performance suggests it may have been a temporary dip in form. All players suffer them, from time to time, and in all fairness Green has been so consistantly good, that any dip from his usually high standard may seem like a plummet in form. It should also be remember that he has hatrdly had a settled back 4 in front of him for most of the season
Upson, has been in and out through injury, and has had an ever changing back line to deal with. Looks like his form is coming back to him now he has a run of games under his belt
Ilunga, again has been in and out of the side through injury, and one (a fractured jaw) that may make you play within yourself for a while once you are back. Last season he was vitually ever present, and benefitted from the understanding made with the players around him. Some have made accusations of him taking his foot off the gas as a result of his new contrat. For me, it's just a case of being in and out of the side not allowing him to build up any form
Collison-a bit harsh to say he's gone backwards. Young players tend to have spurts of improvement, followed by periods of consolidation. I'd say Jack is consolidating, rather than going backwards. He's had a tough year personally, and it can't help his form having an ever changing midfield, where he is playing a different role every other week
Noble, it's a tough one, as he certainly hasn't improved as you'd hope. Like previous managers it seems his best position is not really decided. I'm starting to thing we should use him as Liverpool did Alonso. Sat deep alongside the energetic Parker, Noble would be able to read the game to time his challenges, and give us good distribution from deep
To my mind it's incredibly harsh to lay the blame for less than wonderful form of a few players squarely at the door of Z&C.
But with others their (positive) influence cannot be denied
- Countryboy
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Re: Don't sack Zola
How could Ilunga possibly have gone backwards under Zola when his signing - or specifically the sale if his predecessor Linda - was the reason Curbishley left? He, like Green, Upson and Clison played superbly for Zola last seaon and less well this time. Right now he's not playing at all. The others, tho, have got over their slump. Upson, eg, was excellent yesterday.
- Arch Dandy
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Re: Don't sack Zola
Well players who've got worse whilst playing under Zola then...Countryboy wrote:How could Ilunga possibly have gone backwards under Zola when his signing - or specifically the sale if his predecessor Linda - was the reason Curbishley left? He, like Green, Upson and Clison played superbly for Zola last seaon and less well this time. Right now he's not playing at all. The others, tho, have got over their slump. Upson, eg, was excellent yesterday.
I don't think they played superbly last season, they had a couple of good games, mainly in Zola's purple patch, but I honestly think in the main most players look like, at worse, like they've gone backwards or in a kinder view not progressed under Zola. Cole has progressed amazingly (but IIRC he started to come good toward the end of Curbishley's reign) and a case could be made for Parker I suppose but for me that's it.
Some of it could be put down to temporary form, injuries, outside influences, changes to the squad but hey ho, it's just my opinion.
- Cockneyboy311
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Re: Don't sack Zola
And so was Tompkins who was deservedly given M.O.T.M.Countryboy wrote:Upson, eg, was excellent yesterday.
- GeorgeParris'Pet
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Re: Don't sack Zola
Green came to his rescue when he was turned far too easily by Agbonlahor...Countryboy wrote:Upson, eg, was excellent yesterday.
- clawhammer
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Re: Don't sack Zola
How do you equate that with "most of the players". Most of the examples you give are wrong as well.Arch Dandy wrote:
Really? Upson, Illunga, Green, Collison, Noble haven't gone backwards?
- capt pugwash
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Re: Don't sack Zola
If they feel the need to sack somebody or 2 would like to see the back of Dux n Nani
- Arch Dandy
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Re: Don't sack Zola
See I don't think they're wrong, but that's opinions for you. As for most, they were examples not a comprehensive list.clawhammer wrote:How do you equate that with "most of the players". Most of the examples you give are wrong as well.
If you want to write a list out I'll give you my feelings on how each has progressed under Zola.
- clawhammer
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Re: Don't sack Zola
[quote="Arch Dandy"]
As for most, they were examples not a comprehensive list.
quote]
If you don't know what a word means it is better not to use it. I was taking you seriously.Sorry.
I would say that most of the players in the club have progressed under Zola. The performance of the team yesterday was more than we would be entitled to expect and, I would guess, surprised most of us due to the weakness on paper of the selection....Saggy Chops never knew what "bare bones" really is by comparison.
As for most, they were examples not a comprehensive list.
quote]
If you don't know what a word means it is better not to use it. I was taking you seriously.Sorry.
I would say that most of the players in the club have progressed under Zola. The performance of the team yesterday was more than we would be entitled to expect and, I would guess, surprised most of us due to the weakness on paper of the selection....Saggy Chops never knew what "bare bones" really is by comparison.
- Arch Dandy
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Re: Don't sack Zola
I said most, meaning most and then some gave examples to highlight my point, I didn't realise I had to list everyone who I felt had failed to improve.clawhammer wrote:If you don't know what a word means it is better not to use it. I was taking you seriously.Sorry.
I would say that most of the players in the club have progressed under Zola. The performance of the team yesterday was more than we would be entitled to expect and, I would guess, surprised most of us due to the weakness on paper of the selection....Saggy Chops never knew what "bare bones" really is by comparison.
I'm surprised you feel most of the players have progressed under Zola, I just don't many who look as good or better than they did 18 months to 2 years ago... As for yesterdays game, was that bare bones? I made it two first choice players missing, Ilunga and Cole?
- Hambrosia Stu
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Re: Don't sack Zola
It was hardly bare bones, but as we had 3 strikers missing (2 of which were likely to play. if not start, at least play a meaningful part in the game) we were always going to struggle attackwiseArch Dandy wrote:I said most, meaning most and then some gave examples to highlight my point, I didn't realise I had to list everyone who I felt had failed to improve.
As for yesterdays game, was that bare bones? I made it two first choice players missing, Ilunga and Cole?
But your other point, I couldn't disagree more strongly with
Apart from Noble, which is a debate in itself, I can't see any player who has gone backwards since Zola arrived. I can see plenty who have improved
Green and Upson were quoted as prime examples of those who have gone backwards. But you need to see the bigger picture
Last season we have a very solid, and settled back 4, and saw the benefit
Since then, we sold half of that back 4, and have struggled to put out a settled defensive unit all season
So, Green doesn't look quite so assured? No great surprise, considering that bigger picture. Especially regarding the loss of Collins, the one player who would allow Green's biggest weakness to be covered. Yet in some minds Green's form is purely Zola's fault, and nothing to do with the circumstances
Same same for Upson. The club captain and defensive organiser had left the club, along with arguably Upson's best CD partner. Add to that the niggling injuries he's had, giving him a stop start season. Yet it's all Zola's fault that his form had dipped.......
Behrami & Collison were also mentioned. Cruciate knee ligament damage, and operations obviously have nothing to do with their dips in form (Behrami looks back to form now, imo), and it's all down to Zola.......
I just don't buy it
Last edited by Hambrosia Stu on Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Jackanakanory
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Re: Don't sack Zola
What I don't understand is there is obviously much love and respect for the little fella (Zola) YET we still do not sing Franco Zolas Claret and Blue Army.
Why not?
Seems very very strange to me....
Maybe we can try it Tuesday week at Pompey
Why not?
Seems very very strange to me....
Maybe we can try it Tuesday week at Pompey
- prophet:marginal
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Re: Don't sack Zola
I think that's a fair assessment, but, along with that, I think we have to offer a degree of applause to Zola and Clarke in finding both Nouble and Franco. Both of those players can be considered to have come to the club at the instigation of our present coaching team.hadleighhammer wrote:Upson and Green's form has plummeted this season. Noble doesn't look like a Prem player IMO. Ilumga is nowhere near as good as last seaso, for whatever reason. Same for Collison,
Cole, Parker, Faubert, and now even Kovac look better than last season IMO though.
As much as Nouble can't be seen as much more than a teenager with potential, he may turn out to be a great find. Franco was an inspired piece of business for a team that shops at the football recruitment level of Lidl or Netto.
Additionally, I think Upson and Green's loss of form is going to be more complicated than simply pointing to Zola being a rookie (I appreciate that Hadleigh didn't make this point).
I don't see sufficient benefit to sacking Zola and Clarke now.
- Arch Dandy
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Re: Don't sack Zola
You say you couldn’t disagree with me more that players have gone backwards and then give me reasons why they’ve gone backwards? We can blame what we want, and don’t think I’ve been too harsh on Zola in this thread, but IMHO the majority of individual players don’t look as good as they did 18 months to 2 years ago and that’s had a huge impact on the team. The only one who really stands out as looking a better player for me is Cole, the rest for whatever reasons aren’t looking as good or any better, including the youngsters who I thought could really kick on under Zola and with regular football.Hambrosia Stu wrote:But your other point, I couldn't disagree more strongly with
Hopefully it’s down to injuries and loss of other players, off field instability and every other excuse we can make and soon they’ll be back to their best.
Re: Don't sack Zola
I can't see the point of sacking him, he is learning and yes he's made mistakes but I still feel he is the best person to turn this around
We have gone forward as a team in terms of our playing style and I think we need to see what he can do with his own team. I was speaking to some non-WHU supporting friends and their view was that at the moment we don't have the players to play in the style that Zola wants and I would say we are a couple of players short of that.
As someone else mentioned earlier on, the way Hughes acted at Man City was smugness personified
We have gone forward as a team in terms of our playing style and I think we need to see what he can do with his own team. I was speaking to some non-WHU supporting friends and their view was that at the moment we don't have the players to play in the style that Zola wants and I would say we are a couple of players short of that.
As someone else mentioned earlier on, the way Hughes acted at Man City was smugness personified
Re: Don't sack Zola
So if players get worse it's nothing to do with Z&C but if they get better then "their (positive) influence cannot be denied". :lol: :lol: Personally I think there is a lot more to the loss of form than the management team and similarly a lot more to the improvement of Cole than Zola.Hambrosia Stu wrote: To my mind it's incredibly harsh to lay the blame for less than wonderful form of a few players squarely at the door of Z&C.
But with others their (positive) influence cannot be denied
And no I don't think we should get rid of them. I'm not a fan of changing managers regularly and they've done enough to suggest they can come good.
Re: Don't sack Zola
We support Franco Zola's claret & blue army!!!! Of course!
I prefer a man with a heart who enjoys football!
It seems like he has a big support from the players as well, which will be very important this forthcoming months!
Franco Zola has to be here!
Hughes seems to be a pri** and I guess he even do not want the job.
I prefer a man with a heart who enjoys football!
It seems like he has a big support from the players as well, which will be very important this forthcoming months!
Franco Zola has to be here!
Hughes seems to be a pri** and I guess he even do not want the job.
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Re: Don't sack Zola
I witnessed a lot of the pre season and it had more than a whiff of shambles. I was really shocked because I think a lot of us were giving Zola the benefit of the doubt because he'd not had a summer at the club to sort out fitness and tactics etc so assumed we'd see the results of the Zola /Clarke dream team. Unfortunately that hasn't happened and regardless of the board being ****ers it's not them making the kind of silly mistakes that Zola has made for several games this season. I'm not convinced he's up to the job but sacking him as soon as new owners arrived would seem a bit crass. However if say by the end of Feb we're still struggling then I'm afraid we can't just do nothing and let him take us down. He'll walk out on us anyway if we got relegated so why should we put Zola above the club? I also think Nani needs getting shot of, the DOF just does not work in the British game for whatever reason and we have managed for decades nurturing young talent to sell on so this whole project nonsense was just reinventing the west ham wheel.