XIV: Sam Allardyce [POLL]

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Do you endorse the board's decision to appoint Sam Allardyce as West Ham United's new manager?

Yes
740
82%
No
89
10%
Undecided
69
8%
 
Total votes: 898

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Re: XIV: Sam Allardyce [POLL]

Post by sendô »

Allardyce was always the smart appointment after the farce that was Grant.
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Re: XIV: Sam Allardyce [POLL]

Post by the wren »

I thought he was the best man for the job then and still do now. :thup:
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Re: XIV: Sam Allardyce [POLL]

Post by Turns to Stone »

rare as rockinghorse shat wrote:I reckon some people may just be getting a sense of feeling of just how his teams will evolve.


As always, be patient.
An interesting point. There were many on this site, who wanted a young manager who would slowly bring through a young side who may not get promotion immediately but who would slowly grow into an attractive footballing side who were hard to beat.

I'd be very, very interested to hear what those people would have said had we had exactly the same season, with the same results, signings and media rumblings had we brought in Eddie Howe or Paul Lambert.

My guess would be that there would be far fewer murmerings of discontent.

It's the man that's the problem, not the season.
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Re: XIV: Sam Allardyce [POLL]

Post by Upton Larks »

Turns to Stone wrote:It's the man that's the problem, not the season.
Correct. Only so much you can say on tinterweb, but his ALLEGED corruption, his arrogance, his demeanour and approach are all anti-west ham. He has no class and no dignity. ... the football is secondary to me, and incidentally i've always been pleasantly surprised by it to be honest. No where near as bad as some make out.

Terry Brown, Tevezgate, the Icelandics, the treatment of Zola, corruption, etc, etc. ... we had a chance to get an identity back for this football club that was more akin to the one forged over decades by Greenwood and Lyall, by Moore, Bonds and Brooking. To start afresh and regain some credibility and respect for being a club of class. ... and then we appointed Sam Allardyce.
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Re: XIV: Sam Allardyce [POLL]

Post by szola »

Turns to Stone wrote:There were many on this site, who wanted a young manager who would slowly bring through a young side who may not get promotion immediately but who would slowly grow into an attractive footballing side who were hard to beat.
I'd be very, very interested to hear what those people would have said had we had exactly the same season, with the same results, signings and media rumblings had we brought in Eddie Howe or Paul Lambert.
If I may add my thoughts, as I don't understand the connection.

Apart from Baldock, and Potts, who have played some games, what player have we brought into the fold, who can be classified as young?

In how many games have we tried to play football, and not pulled the emergency lever every five minutes?

Would we had the same media rumblings if we were to start fresh, with a young side, not signing players from Premier League sides?

So apart from attitude, personel and signings, the same results.

I for one would have been over chuffed, being third, with a young team.
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Re: XIV: Sam Allardyce [POLL]

Post by Turns to Stone »

Turns to Stone wrote:It's the man that's the problem, not the season.
Upton Larks wrote: Correct. Only so much you can say on tinterweb, but his ALLEGED corruption, his arrogance, his demeanour and approach are all anti-west ham. He has no class and no dignity. ... the football is secondary to me, and incidentally i've always been pleasantly surprised by it to be honest. No where near as bad as some make out.

Terry Brown, Tevezgate, the Icelandics, the treatment of Zola, corruption, etc, etc. ... we had a chance to get an identity back for this football club that was more akin to the one forged over decades by Greenwood and Lyall, by Moore, Bonds and Brooking. To start afresh and regain some credibility and respect for being a club of class. ... and then we appointed Sam Allardyce.
You miss my point, Larks.

Or rather you confirm my point by missing it. The season's been ok. Fair enough, we've had some hard truths come our way in various forms, but my point is that even if we'd been top of the league by 20 points there would have been people counting down the days till we could get shot of Allardyce.

So far this season we've lost games that we should have won, we've been knocked out in the first round of the both cups, we've had fans moaning and groaning from the get go, we've had a manager who puts his principles ahead of his priority, we've seen 3 or 4 of youth team firmly establish themselves in the first team. We've had some bargain signings come good and some overpriced ones look decidedly ordinary. We've gone from a position of strength to a position of weakness in a matter of weeks and then, when it looked all over, we've pulled some results out of the hat that no-one in the right mid expected.

If that's not 'The West Ham Way' then I really don't know what it is.

Allardyce has had a good season and has learnt a lot of lessons that will stand him in good stead going forward. My point is that very few people wanted him here...and those that did basically considered it a 'sacrifice'. We've gone into this season wanting to see something, a version of Allardyce that we and the media have created. We chose to ignore the positives, and zoned in on the negatives. The signing and performances of Kevin Nolan has 139 pages with a lot of negativity within it. The thread to show how a man brought in by Allardyce for £500k and who has scored 10 goals in 12 games has 12 pages?

If you want to see the negativity in anyone, it's there. You'll find it. But perception is huge. We talk about the shoddy treatment of the likes of Zola and Steve Kean, but their records aren't dissimilar to that of Avram Grant's. What's the difference? Perception...publicity?

As I say though, if you don't want to see the good in something, or someone...you won't.
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Re: XIV: Sam Allardyce [POLL]

Post by Upton Larks »

Turns to Stone wrote:As I say though, if you don't want to see the good in something, or someone...you won't.
No, you miss my point. I agree with all of your subsequent post, aside of your comment on Zola and Grant: If you can't see the difference between the two, and reduce it down to results then we'll never debate on the same level.

I do see Sam has done some great things, his football has been steadily getting better under difficult circumstances, he has played some youth players and done some very good things as you note. ... I still don't like him, because of who he is and how he handles himself. His personality, his crass apporach and gum chewing arrogance, his criticism of fans (albeit accurately), his keenness to dig out players to deflecrt criticism away from himself, and as I insinuated but wont go into too much detail, his less than squeaky clean approach to the game; preferred agents, etc, etc.

If we don't have class, dignity and respect. If the face of our club doesn't garner admiration for the person they are, as much as their managerial abilities, if Bobby, Ron and John are no longer conjured up in the minds eye of the neutral but instead, Tevezgate, Joorabchian, Eggert and now Sam ... then we may as well be another mediocre football club, with no identity, and no real reason to be proud to follow the team. We may as well be Middlesbrough, or Bolton, or Blackburn. Nothing clubs with nothing identities or worse, with identities that draw derision from both opposing fans, and even our own. I don't want to feel ashamed of my club, I don't want to have that grubby feeling that's become the norm ever since Uncle Terry sold us out. ... Sam ...urrgh! no thanks.
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Re: XIV: Sam Allardyce [POLL]

Post by hadleighhammer »

Said 'No' at the time and would still say 'No' now.

3rd with this team and resources compared to the rest of the league is not a success story, it is the bare minimum perhaps even slightly shy of it. The football has been appalling at times to. Add to that his disregard and rubbishing of anything to do with WHUFC's traditions hardly makes me think it's best to change my mind.

We're stuck with him now though and if we don't go up would give him another season though. Tired of us hiring and firing a manager per season.
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Re: XIV: Sam Allardyce [POLL]

Post by Aceface »

Turns to Stone wrote: Allardyce has had a good season and has learnt a lot of lessons that will stand him in good stead going forward. My point is that very few people wanted him here...and those that did basically considered it a 'sacrifice'. We've gone into this season wanting to see something, a version of Allardyce that we and the media have created. We chose to ignore the positives, and zoned in on the negatives.
There's a poll at the top of this very page showing 82% endorsed his appointment - in the words of David Brent, that's a landslide.

Can't speak for anyone else, but my issue was never that he would do a terrible job, just that I thought there were plenty of other candidates with less baggage, and who were a better fit (this is the key part - for better or worse, West Ham is certainly a club concerned with aesthetics and image, where I would argue Bolton and Blackburn are not) who would have done an EQUALLY good job. And my case couldn't have been made any more clear than the club who sit a single place below us on the ladder - Birmingham are an exact like-for-like example, except with even worse problems than we had. They give lie to the 'big clearout/psychological damage of relegation/new manager takes time to mould his side' arguments, because they've done the same thing with far greater obstacles.

None of which means I'm "anti" him now he's here. Being the level of club we are, supporting managers who you wouldn't necessarily have picked yourself is part of the remit sometimes, but you always rally around them once they're here and so I'm behind him now as I was for everyone else we've ever appointed. But those were my reservations at the time and they are still my reservations now.
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Re: XIV: Sam Allardyce [POLL]

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

Was a "Yes" of the candidates (realistically) available but while not exactly a "No" I am less enamoured than at first.

Lots of reasons all very well stated. So no reason to rake over the coals. I don't want him sacked, but if he walked I would not shed one tear.

Sorry but that's how I feel. Never called for Grant to be sacked, but heaved a huge sigh of relief when he went. Would feel exactly the same were circumstances to be repeated.
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Re: XIV: Sam Allardyce [POLL]

Post by Hockley Hammer »

Aceface wrote:
(this is the key part - for better or worse, West Ham is certainly a club concerned with aesthetics and image, where I would argue Bolton and Blackburn are not) who would have done an EQUALLY good job. And my case couldn't have been made any more clear than the club who sit a single place below us on the ladder - Birmingham are an exact like-for-like example, except with even worse problems than we had. They give lie to the 'big clearout/psychological damage of relegation/new manager takes time to mould his side' arguments, because they've done the same thing with far greater obstacles.
I certainly don't think we have a good image anymore. The Tevez saga, the treatment of Zola and Grant by the current owners. The treatment of Curbishley, Pardew and even Bonds by previous boards hardly makes us a club concerned with aesthetics.

I would have picked Hughton, but plenty on here say he wasn't good enough for us. He may have done better than Sam, but all I know is that I have never felt as low as I did this time last year when we were going down without a fight with a buffoon for a manager and a board who had royally f***ed up everything they touched from the time they got here.

I have actually got a bit of pride back in my team as they seem to be trying for the cause, and generally succeeding - which is a bit more than I can say for the last few seasons.
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