Hopefully neither will allow themselves to be so woefully positioned.....ala Collins.thejackhammer wrote:But in the Tomkins-Reid partnership who's the one who throws himself in front of everything a la Collins?
Transfer Window: January 2013
Moderator: Gnome
Re: The January 2013 transfer window
- MS in the West
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Re: The January 2013 transfer window
I must say the 'Tomkins was at fault for the Van Persie goal' lobby bemuses me. Indeed I think that in itself is a good reason for discounting any opinion on other matters of football.
Sometimes a truly great goal is scored. Van Persie's was one. I'll tell you who might have successfully defended against that goal. Bobby Moore.
Tomkins is not as good as Moore shock. Well I think we can all go with that.
Sometimes a truly great goal is scored. Van Persie's was one. I'll tell you who might have successfully defended against that goal. Bobby Moore.
Tomkins is not as good as Moore shock. Well I think we can all go with that.
- Westcliff Hammer
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Re: The January 2013 transfer window
He also seems to panic aswell. Redknapp loves to upset us and has cash to spend has he tried to nab him? no. Norwich who are a decent club, Villa? Especially Q.P.R if they were interested in getting Diame then added with the rumours that Nelson is 100% off then im certain that Redknapp would have been all over the possibility of getting someone who can help shore up he's defence if he was this 'future england international'
Re: The January 2013 transfer window
I can't remember seeing tomkins get bullied by a striker aerially, in the championship he was up against much more physical presence and outshone reid in that sense (who got outmuscled by anichebe against everton 2 weeks ago), not to mention his strength at the back post from corners. At the olympics he had no match fitness what so ever and was then paired with micah richards, who's positional sense and leadership at the back was awful.
Re: The January 2013 transfer window
[quote="MS in the West"]
Sometimes a truly great goal is scored. Van Persie's was one. quote]
It was a great goal but I think people are glorifying it simply because it was van persie. At the end of the day Tomkins got done by a ball over his head and failed to even put a challenge in or come close to a block. I don't think that means he should be sold but I think he could have done better.
Sometimes a truly great goal is scored. Van Persie's was one. quote]
It was a great goal but I think people are glorifying it simply because it was van persie. At the end of the day Tomkins got done by a ball over his head and failed to even put a challenge in or come close to a block. I don't think that means he should be sold but I think he could have done better.
- Aceface
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Re: The January 2013 transfer window
Even if he was at fault, I'm fine with a defender getting skinned by Van Persie every now and then. He won't be the last.
If it had been a ball from Dean Whitehead to Cameron Jerome then we might need an inquest. But it wasn't. So we probably don't.
If it had been a ball from Dean Whitehead to Cameron Jerome then we might need an inquest. But it wasn't. So we probably don't.
- Westcliff Hammer
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Re: The January 2013 transfer window
Sometimes a truly great goal is scored. Van Persie's was one.
You're telling me Vidic, Lescott, Vertonghen,,Terry, Cahill, Pique, Chiellini even Reid,Wouldn't have clattered him and cleared the ball?
Great defenders would have spotted that followed the flight of ball and put he's head on it rather than watch the player and think '****, it's Van Persie;.' It was 100% defendable if he don't get the ball on he's chest he doesn't beat him and the goal doesn't get scored simple as that. It was complete and utter naivety on Tomkins part.
You're telling me Vidic, Lescott, Vertonghen,,Terry, Cahill, Pique, Chiellini even Reid,Wouldn't have clattered him and cleared the ball?
Great defenders would have spotted that followed the flight of ball and put he's head on it rather than watch the player and think '****, it's Van Persie;.' It was 100% defendable if he don't get the ball on he's chest he doesn't beat him and the goal doesn't get scored simple as that. It was complete and utter naivety on Tomkins part.
- westhamburgerking
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- thejackhammer
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Re: The January 2013 transfer window
westhamburgerking wrote:The standard of quoting here is getting ridiculous.
Re: The January 2013 transfer window
[quote="westhamburgerking"]The standard of quoting here is getting ridiculous.quote]
leave it out
leave it out
- Wilko1304
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Re: The January 2013 transfer window
I wouldnt panic if Tomkins was sold, but similarly I wouldn't be happy. If we can get someone better for cheaper then fine. From what I've read much of this is to do with Tomkins and Sam falling out about the Olympics thing, which is all a bit petty and I imagine could be easily resolved.
I thought Reid was the better player last year, but I never saw Tomkins panic or get bullied, and I dont think I've seen him bullied this year. I'd say he's out of form having been played in positions hes not exactly comfortable with, and this effects him at times when he goes back to the centre of defence. Then he gets taken out again, never given more than a game or two to find any true form.
I don't think he's shown himself worthy of taking Collins' place, but at the same time you can't have him come in for one game, not have a complete blinder so say he's not good enough. I think him and Collins did very well together considering they had a very good front line attacking them on Saturday, and Potts to look after too. Plus they havent played together that often, which could explain a lack of understanding for the first.
I think positional sense would automatically come to the fore again once he had a run in the team at centre back. He can also bulk up physically, saying that at 23 he can't improve his physique is complete nonsense.
Tomkins is a good player with many years ahead of him to continuously improve. He would be no critical loss at the moment, but he would also be very good to keep and is still a decent player. He's not a right back or a holding midfielder, two positions that are harder to fill in at against top class opposition.
I also saw nothing to suggest Diarra is any better than any of our centre backs.
I thought Reid was the better player last year, but I never saw Tomkins panic or get bullied, and I dont think I've seen him bullied this year. I'd say he's out of form having been played in positions hes not exactly comfortable with, and this effects him at times when he goes back to the centre of defence. Then he gets taken out again, never given more than a game or two to find any true form.
I don't think he's shown himself worthy of taking Collins' place, but at the same time you can't have him come in for one game, not have a complete blinder so say he's not good enough. I think him and Collins did very well together considering they had a very good front line attacking them on Saturday, and Potts to look after too. Plus they havent played together that often, which could explain a lack of understanding for the first.
I think positional sense would automatically come to the fore again once he had a run in the team at centre back. He can also bulk up physically, saying that at 23 he can't improve his physique is complete nonsense.
Tomkins is a good player with many years ahead of him to continuously improve. He would be no critical loss at the moment, but he would also be very good to keep and is still a decent player. He's not a right back or a holding midfielder, two positions that are harder to fill in at against top class opposition.
I also saw nothing to suggest Diarra is any better than any of our centre backs.
- Westcliff Hammer
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Re: The January 2013 transfer window
CHhammer wrote:I can't remember seeing tomkins get bullied by a striker aerially, in the championship he was up against much more physical presence and outshone reid in that sense (who got outmuscled by anichebe against everton 2 weeks ago), not to mention his strength at the back post from corners. At the olympics he had no match fitness what so ever and was then paired with micah richards, who's positional sense and leadership at the back was awful.
Jason Roberts at home vs Reading last season. Yakubu vs Everton in the premier league where he got sent off.
- Wilko1304
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Re: The January 2013 transfer window
http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/la ... ial-video/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Westcliff Hammer wrote: You're telling me Vidic, Lescott, Vertonghen,,Terry, Cahill, Pique, Chiellini even Reid,Wouldn't have clattered him and cleared the ball?
Great defenders would have spotted that followed the flight of ball and put he's head on it rather than watch the player and think '****, it's Van Persie;.' It was 100% defendable if he don't get the ball on he's chest he doesn't beat him and the goal doesn't get scored simple as that. It was complete and utter naivety on Tomkins part.
Watch that again. The positioning isn't bad, the ball is perfect, the first touch exquisite. If he'd managed to head that whilst running towards goal at that speed and with perfect timing then I'd considering it the defensive touch of the season.
Also, I can name a good few times Vidic has been physically bullied. Cole last weekend is one. Is Vidic too poor for the Premier League?
- Westcliff Hammer
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Re: The January 2013 transfer window
Right,
Point 1. Tomkins has seen the ball coming
Point 2 Wasn't following the flight of the ball, it wasn't driven directly to RVP it was floated
Point 3 He didn't look across he's shoulder as he spotted the ball and see where Van Persie was
Point 4 Completely the wrong side to start with
Point 5 Van Persie had time to bring the ball down and as RVP isn't lightening quick Tomkins still could have got infront of RVP.
Vidic isn't the defender he was as the injuries have taken it's toll after all he is what? 31, 32?
A bang on form fit and firing Vidic would have dealt with that, Meat and drink to him.
Point 1. Tomkins has seen the ball coming
Point 2 Wasn't following the flight of the ball, it wasn't driven directly to RVP it was floated
Point 3 He didn't look across he's shoulder as he spotted the ball and see where Van Persie was
Point 4 Completely the wrong side to start with
Point 5 Van Persie had time to bring the ball down and as RVP isn't lightening quick Tomkins still could have got infront of RVP.
Vidic isn't the defender he was as the injuries have taken it's toll after all he is what? 31, 32?
A bang on form fit and firing Vidic would have dealt with that, Meat and drink to him.
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Re: The January 2013 transfer window
....and about two minutes before that Tomkins avoided a certain goal by throwing his body in there to block RVP's shot...
- Ted Fenton
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Re: The January 2013 transfer window
My laptop must be playing up. I thought I'd clicked for the transfer thread but it seems to be one dealing with either the cup game against Man Utd or Tomkins.
Re: The January 2013 transfer window
Vidic got bullied by carlton cole for 90 minutes. it wasn't defendable, he's goal side and about 5 yards away from him its just the ball by gigs was sheer class.Wilko1304 wrote:You're telling me Vidic, Lescott, Vertonghen,,Terry, Cahill, Pique, Chiellini even Reid,Wouldn't have clattered him and cleared the ball?
Great defenders would have spotted that followed the flight of ball and put he's head on it rather than watch the player and think '****, it's Van Persie;.' It was 100% defendable if he don't get the ball on he's chest he doesn't beat him and the goal doesn't get scored simple as that. It was complete and utter naivety on Tomkins part.
the fact you've got pique down as a great defender tells me everything.
- HamburgHammer
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Re: The January 2013 transfer window
Ted, this is the January 2013 transfer thread which doesn't just include transfers in, but also transfers out.Ted Fenton wrote:My laptop must be playing up. I thought I'd clicked for the transfer thread but it seems to be one dealing with either the cup game against Man Utd or Tomkins.
Rumour has it that Tomkins may be a transfer from West Ham to Newcastle, hence the discussions on the merits of keeping or selling Tomkins...
- Westcliff Hammer
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Re: The January 2013 transfer window
the fact you've got pique down as a great defender tells me everything.[/quote]
Someone who's won the World Cup, Euro Championship, La Liga Champions League yea he's a poor player
Someone who's won the World Cup, Euro Championship, La Liga Champions League yea he's a poor player
- il_martello_di_genovesi
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Re: The January 2013 transfer window
Tomkins is a young defender still learning the game. Of course he's going to get caught out sometimes. But there has been plenty of times where he has shown his ability and put in some wonderful shifts at the back.
Last season he was marking strikers for Barnsley, Peterborough and Bristol City. He's making a massive step up again, and will need time and a run in the side to improve. At the moment, he's not an established Premiership defender is he? He's got the potential to be, so hopefully he can learn from things like this.
We're talking about a ball from Ryan Giggs and a bring down and finish from the Premiership's best striker at current. If he had managed to stop it, then fantastic, but I'm not going to criticise him for not being able to. Why are we even comparing Tomkins and Vidic?
I personally would hope we keep him, but I guess we all see different things.
Last season he was marking strikers for Barnsley, Peterborough and Bristol City. He's making a massive step up again, and will need time and a run in the side to improve. At the moment, he's not an established Premiership defender is he? He's got the potential to be, so hopefully he can learn from things like this.
We're talking about a ball from Ryan Giggs and a bring down and finish from the Premiership's best striker at current. If he had managed to stop it, then fantastic, but I'm not going to criticise him for not being able to. Why are we even comparing Tomkins and Vidic?
I personally would hope we keep him, but I guess we all see different things.