Transfer Window: Summer 2013

A selection of the very best posts and/or most memorable threads on KUMB since the current Forum launched in 2002.

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hammer_sandwich
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by hammer_sandwich »

Turns to Stone wrote:When I look at G and S, I think that they are genuinely enjoying managing West Ham. They are enjoying the bigger fanbase than Birmingham, they are enjoying being associated with a club so much history and they are enjoying the fact that the fans react well to the positive stuff they do.....
Well said sir.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Hammer83 »

The only reason people on here keep going on about FFP is because the owners started it.They have on more than one occasion publicly stated it wages wages etc zzzzzzz If they hadn't mentioned it none of us would have been discussing all the in and outs of it.

No other club has mentioned it or doesn't seem to concerned by it because it turns out it doesn't really come into play further down the line.To me it's just a dressed up excuse for failing to get a proper striker in during the window.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Turns to Stone »

Hammer83 wrote:The only reason people on here keep going on about FFP is because the owners started it.They have on more than one occasion publicly stated it wages wages etc zzzzzzz If they hadn't mentioned it none of us would have been discussing all the in and outs of it.

No other club has mentioned it or doesn't seem to concerned by it because it turns out it doesn't really come into play further down the line.To me it's just a dressed up excuse for failing to get a proper striker in during the window.
I'd rather we over-prepared than under-prepared. It could be excuses for sure, but who's interest does it serve for us to not go out and get a striker. Do you really think that Gold and Sullivan are sitting on £10m in the bank and a spare £120k a week in wages and have just decided to 'f*ck it off' and lie to the fans about FFP.

From what I've learnt about G and S, they would have absolutely f*cking loved to have brought in Lukaku or Ba or even Solomon Kalou, but were hamstrung by certain factors.

With football as it currently is, everyone is playing a waiting game, every club wants to make sure it doesn't make a mistake and sign someone too early and miss out on something else. Players don't want to sign for a club too early and make a mistake.

For all we know, we could have had Ba or Lukaku lined up to sign from day one of the transfer window on the previso that Chelsea brought someone else in, or maybe that something else changed. Last year, the board made a mistake in buying the best available striker they could afford and who would come in early August...that was Modibo Maiga and we bought him before Carroll came on the radar. This year, the board didn't want to go out and sign Shola Ameobi early, only to then find out that Demba Ba was interested...it's a waiting game that you sometimes have to play. You gamble etc. You know very well, that if we'd gone out and bought Nicholas Bendtner or Shola Ameobi in July and then missed out on Demba Ba or Adebayor on 31st August, that this place would have gone into meltdown.

I honestly don't see why people are 'assuming' that the board are making up the FFP as some sort of excuse. I think they genuinely did everything they could, tried to shift players on and couldn't quite cut the deals they needed to on the last day. After last season though and buying Maiga early on, I can see why they waiting this year.

I don't understand why everyone is constantly talking about 'other clubs' though. Other clubs have their own finances and their own debts, they are not comparable to ours, as they're financial situations are different.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Major »

Laughable!!

Thats all i have to say

Laughable!!
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Bobby Orangeboom »

hammer_sandwich wrote:
Well said sir.
It just means they have big ego's doesn't it ?
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by rare as rockinghorse shat »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote:This FFP £52m thing intrigued me so I had a bit of a look into it this is the rule on wages:

No restriction if wages are below 52M. If above maximum increase is 4m per year + any increased revenue from commercial income (this extra doesn't include tv money)

So, if I am reading this right, if a club had a wage bill of less than £52M as we did there is no £52m limit this year, we could add what we wanted. NEXT year we may then be over £52M so could only add 4M.

The 52m isn't a limit on spending so much as a level to be below so you can spend big. There are no punishments we would fall foul of (we would have to be over 52M in dec and then over 4m more the following dec). We could have added any amount in wages had we wanted and that would at worst have limited us to a 4m increase next year. And of course we could have added any loan signings without it making a blind bit of difference as even if that pushed us through the mythical 52m this year it would have come off the bill before next year.
So, if I'm reading what you've read correctly and what you've read is interpreted correctly, then G&S may be playing something of a master stroke here?

We could have - say - got a couple of OKish players in now which would have put us above £52m.
The FFP rules come in, THEN we're limited to a ceiling of an additional £4m.

But, we've stayed under £52m, so the FFP rules do not apply to us. This means in the future - at a more suitable time for strengthening - we can then rise anywhere above the £52m ceiling, let's say adding £20m worth of talent on decent contracts.

Only then, will we be subject to the £4m ceiling, but we'd already have strengthened massively PLUS the £4m, rather than strengthening only a bit and being limited solely to the £4m rise.

Bit like saying:

"Right, John, you can have 5 pints tonight before 8pm, but it means that's your lot until midnight, then you can only have an additional 2 pints after that till we go home".

"But... if you only have 2 pints now before 8pm, you can have a good 10 pints till midnight, then still have those additional 2 pints after midnight till we go home"?


If I've interpreted correctly, what you have interpreted, then it sounds to me like it could be some pretty brilliant business acumen.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by szola »

And based on the fact that we cannot be relegated :raver:
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Ozza »

Sort of feels like there's a bigger plan at work with the owners, I would imagine a lot of contracts end at the sametime for the squad?
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Bobby Orangeboom »

Ozza wrote:Sort of feels like there's a bigger plan at work with the owners, I would imagine a lot of contracts end at the sametime for the squad?
If that's true that doesn't sound to great to me personally.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Pulls up Trees »

I've heard FPP be described about a hundred different ways, all of which sound more credible than the last. One day, someone will screw up and be in breach of it, and we might find out how it actually works!

(hoping it's Tottenham!)
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Ozza »

I've no idea mate, but it could work either way, the club is in a good place so able to dictate what they want, plus shed people no longer part of the plan?

Sort of feels like there's a 3-5 year plan?
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Ozza »

Pulls up Trees wrote:I've heard FPP be described about a hundred different ways, all of which sound more credible than the last. One day, someone will screw up and be in breach of it, and we might find out how it actually works!

(hoping it's Tottenham!)
No chance with their owners and levy unfortunately :(
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Turns to Stone »

Ozza wrote:I've no idea mate, but it could work either way, the club is in a good place so able to dictate what they want, plus shed people no longer part of the plan?

Sort of feels like there's a 3-5 year plan?
There is a 3-5 year plan for sure. The difficulty that all promoted clubs have is they have to slowly transform themselves from a squad of Championship quality players to a squad of Premier League players. There is a difference betwen us and many others, as we have a fan base and a history (and a number of players) of being an established Premier League side (as opposed to the likes of Blackpool, Burnley Reading etc). Therefore we have shorter expectation dates for these.

We also have the ability to bring in higher quality players - (Carroll, Downing, Nolan) than some teams around us.

What we need to do over the next 2 -3 years is slowly improve on the likes of Matty Taylor, Guy Demel, Jussi Jaaskealienen, Diarra, McCartney, Vaz Te et al. Players who have done well for us, but who were brought in to get us into this division (keep us in the division) but who are now reaching a certain age or who have reached the levels that have earned them a new contract. Replacing them with better alternatives, whilst keeping an eye on the wage bill will be tough. But we are still paying decent wages to a number of players who haven't set the world alight in recent years. Things will get better, but sometimes you have to take a couple of sideways steps before you can go forward. It would have been great if we could have gone out and got Ba or Kalou this summer along with Sane or Kuzmanovic. But the fact is, instead we went with Downing and Cole. Players who will keep us in the division and who will mean that perhaps we're looking at 11th - 14th rather than 7th - 10th. But as I say, it's a long game we're playing. And I'm perfectly happy with that.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Gerblatz »

rare as rockinghorse shat wrote:
So, if I'm reading what you've read correctly and what you've read is interpreted correctly, then G&S may be playing something of a master stroke here?

If I've interpreted correctly, what you have interpreted, then it sounds to me like it could be some pretty brilliant business acumen.
If this turns out to be the case - seeing the wood for the trees, over the sands, into deep blue seas - then our owners would deserve a lot of praise for having such foresight. After all, isn't that why they are successful at what they do?

Come next year's transfer trauma, we could find ourselves better placed than those that have opted for the short game this time round.

Interesting...
Last edited by Gerblatz on Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by daniel »

Bobby Orangeboom wrote:
It just means they have big ego's doesn't it ?
I keep waiting for that Altruistic oligarch to take over, when does that happen?
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Turns to Stone »

Gerblatz wrote: If this turns out to be the case - seeing the wood for the trees, over the sands, into deep blue seas - then our owners would deserve a lot of praise for having such foresight. After all, isn't that why they are successful at what they do?

Come next year's transfer trauma, we could find ourselves better placed than those that have opted for the short game this time round.

Interesting...

One of West Ham's problems (in recent history) has been a desire to run before we can walk. It might be annoying for the fans when we seem to treading water....but better than drowning. Especially if our competitors have set off at a financial rate that the can't keep up.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Gerblatz »

Turns to Stone wrote:One of West Ham's problems (in recent history) has been a desire to run before we can walk. It might be annoying for the fans when we seem to treading water....but better than drowning. Especially if our competitors have set off at a financial rate that the can't keep up.
Very much the case - as fabled as it may be; it was always the Tortoise that won the race.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by bubbles1966 »

A big problem for us this year, and maybe next, is that we are transitioning from a lot of players on championship standard/low level PL contracts up to better standard PL ones - (e.g Vaz Te to Downing).

That means changes in personnel generate big jumps in the overall salary spend of the club.

For a club like Tottenham, Liverpool or Everton, they are jettisoning players on top 6 PL contracts to replace with newer players on the same/similar contracts.... so the payroll doesn't accelerate.

I think 2015 is the year a lot of better paid players - Diarra, Diame, Noble etc - start going out of contract - so we have the opportunity to go again with the same money on a player like Diarra but hope to get a better return for the money.

Joe Cole is the obvious one for next summer where they will ask if £40k a week is best spent on him due to his fitness.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Aceface »

rare as rockinghorse shat wrote: If I've interpreted correctly, what you have interpreted, then it sounds to me like it could be some pretty brilliant business acumen.
Problem is there's no reason to logically think it's much less than the £52m limit. That figure includes paying for every player at the club at every level, as well as NI, image rights etc. We have 26 first teamers alone. No-one knows what each player is earning of course, but sensible estimations mean we're extremely unlikely to be anywhere other than somewhere approaching that figure.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Ozza »

bubbles1966 wrote:A big problem for us this year, and maybe next, is that we are transitioning from a lot of players on championship standard/low level PL contracts up to better standard PL ones - (e.g Vaz Te to Downing).
Hence the ffp stuff this window as rars has pointed out?
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