Allardyce: Stick or twist?
Moderator: Gnome
Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist
Imagine a world with no internet, for fans not to over analysis the tactics, formations, reasons why we lose etc
We all just turned up to Upton Park and saw brief highlights on MOTD
Do you reckon there would still be this X factor fixation of having to have so much personal judgement on a manager ? Or do you reckon we'd all just turn up to the match and not give a sh*t about him, just thankfull for the job his done and focus on getting behind the team - it's the whole social world we live in now where we judge about everything, he could wear a different colour tie next week and somewhere out there will be someone creating a debate about it.
He has no more to prove, he's an excellent manager , it's clear those that still doubt him are those that have a personal issue with him - you can't debate with these people.
We all just turned up to Upton Park and saw brief highlights on MOTD
Do you reckon there would still be this X factor fixation of having to have so much personal judgement on a manager ? Or do you reckon we'd all just turn up to the match and not give a sh*t about him, just thankfull for the job his done and focus on getting behind the team - it's the whole social world we live in now where we judge about everything, he could wear a different colour tie next week and somewhere out there will be someone creating a debate about it.
He has no more to prove, he's an excellent manager , it's clear those that still doubt him are those that have a personal issue with him - you can't debate with these people.
- GravesendIron
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist
The bloke has somehow done a good job with the hand he has been dealt. In the years he has been in charge he has got us out of the Championship at the first attempt then finished 10th and 13th in the Prem with a squad that has had problems, now we are near the top of the Prem challenging for a European place.
Looking back over the last few years with Sam its not all been good but we cant ignore the fact that we are in a far better position than when he took the job, we should stick with him.
Looking back over the last few years with Sam its not all been good but we cant ignore the fact that we are in a far better position than when he took the job, we should stick with him.
Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist
As a poster said later in this thread, sensibly:"Time will tell...
Really, I just don't get this!
What will it take to make some people happy, or is it that some people just don't want to be happy and give credit?
Red card for you Bab"
"I put him on a par with Pardew at the mo. We're 10 games into our metamorphis, let's be patient...."
I have given him credit for making a start, hence my comment that time would tell, but that has nothing to do with my distaste of his persona and dismissive attitude towards the supporters, which I believe riles most of us up, as long standing Hammers fans.
Let's look at his tenure realistically then lads, notwithstanding the Greenwood/Lyall/Redknapp successes:
He took on West Ham when he was desperate for a job and was lucky to be appointed to our great club in the wake of the Grant debacle. Albeit we were in some financial difficulties. We just about scraped up, after he nearly failed late on in the Championship to get the results that would have meant auto promotion.
We were a surprise element in the first PL season and there seemed some hope, but last season was appalling apart from the Spurs results, which saved his backside. I concede we didn't have the playing staff available, but that was mainly due to his? decision to place all the eggs in the Carroll/Downing basket and not strengthen the squad with some depth. (assuming he has input in to the transfer decisions of course)
I'm very happy with some of the fighting spirit and the 2 up front or a diamond with Downing sitting behind Valencia/Sakho. BTW I think the Downing transformation is marvellous and his comments after Stoke about a bollocking from Sam weren't the main factor in our better 2nd half performance, it was the addition of a 2nd striker, which any fool could see was needed long before half time. Okay, I get it, I've got to give him praise to placate you Sam lovers, so I will, albeit tempered by the lateness of his change-around.
I believe my assessment of Sam's ability, record and style is fair and reasonable and those demanding our love and respect for him should indeed respect the views of others, which has been badly missing on this over bloated thread.
That's all I can say on this matter at the moment and I repeat my sentiment that we'll have to wait and see if this current purple patch solidifies in to a sound basis for our club going forward!?
Last edited by Up the Junction on Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Unnecessary insult removed.
Reason: Unnecessary insult removed.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist
To be honest I am a little bit perplexed that this debate is continuing and I started to wonder about the 'outstanding' candidates that are currently available to take Sam's place. I have also been considering those 'great' managers that we could tempt away from other clubs.
Outside of the richest elite clubs, what great managers are there that would consider West Ham United as a good career move? Effectively we are looking at managers at least 1 level below these, many of these, like Pot-of-shito, at Spuds have proven to be 'not quite as good as thought'.
Koeman, may prove to be a great manager, he has had success in Holland, but failed elsewhere. It will not be until Scumhampton hit a sticky spell that we will see how good he really is. And if he manages to pull off a miracle and get them to the Champions League or win a domestic trophy, he will be eyeing a much more high profile club than West Ham.
It is a conundrum for clubs like ours, we are 'big' in terms of financial turnover, but not so big in terms of international profile. Unless we suddenly start to compete at the top table we will remain exactly what we are: a reasonable premier league side. We will not become better by chopping and changing managers. We need a club philosophy that is built from the bottom up. Each level, from schoolboy, youth to first team needs to play the same brand/style of football. In this way it is easier for youth players to make the transition at the highest level.
I don't know if Sam is the man to build that and I do not know if that is his brief, if it isn't it ought to be. If after 3 years he is not delivering, then yes, lets make a change, but not with a knee jerk reaction to a run of poor results. It should be part of, dare I say it, a business plan and Sam should be wholly involved in that. Sometimes things can be progressing at club level that aren't immediately bearing fruit at first team level.
What I will say for Sam is that the team does seem to reflect his personality, hard as nails and gives everything for the cause. He has added flair to that mix, as he did at Bolton and the team is looking all the better for having better players.
As an aside, not liking a managers personality should have little to do with it. Alf Ramsey wasn't everyones cup of tea, but he did okay.
Outside of the richest elite clubs, what great managers are there that would consider West Ham United as a good career move? Effectively we are looking at managers at least 1 level below these, many of these, like Pot-of-shito, at Spuds have proven to be 'not quite as good as thought'.
Koeman, may prove to be a great manager, he has had success in Holland, but failed elsewhere. It will not be until Scumhampton hit a sticky spell that we will see how good he really is. And if he manages to pull off a miracle and get them to the Champions League or win a domestic trophy, he will be eyeing a much more high profile club than West Ham.
It is a conundrum for clubs like ours, we are 'big' in terms of financial turnover, but not so big in terms of international profile. Unless we suddenly start to compete at the top table we will remain exactly what we are: a reasonable premier league side. We will not become better by chopping and changing managers. We need a club philosophy that is built from the bottom up. Each level, from schoolboy, youth to first team needs to play the same brand/style of football. In this way it is easier for youth players to make the transition at the highest level.
I don't know if Sam is the man to build that and I do not know if that is his brief, if it isn't it ought to be. If after 3 years he is not delivering, then yes, lets make a change, but not with a knee jerk reaction to a run of poor results. It should be part of, dare I say it, a business plan and Sam should be wholly involved in that. Sometimes things can be progressing at club level that aren't immediately bearing fruit at first team level.
What I will say for Sam is that the team does seem to reflect his personality, hard as nails and gives everything for the cause. He has added flair to that mix, as he did at Bolton and the team is looking all the better for having better players.
As an aside, not liking a managers personality should have little to do with it. Alf Ramsey wasn't everyones cup of tea, but he did okay.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist
With respect I don't think that is clear at all, there are some that seem to have taken a personal dislike to Sam but there are others that have based their opinion on what they have seen and/or heard. Some of those are merely reserving judgement based on the experience of last season, some may genuinely believe there are better managers out there for us - though personally I can't think of any standout candidates that are definitely in that category and would come to us.Markt85 wrote: it's clear those that still doubt him are those that have a personal issue with him - you can't debate with these people.
Try not treat this thread as an argument you are going to "win" and convert everyone to your view, that is never going to happen
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist
You don't have to do anything, Babooshka....aside from accepting that other people will have different opinions to you.Babooshka wrote:Okay, I get it, I've got to give him praise to placate you Sam lovers, so I will, albeit tempered by the lateness of his change-around.
I believe my assessment of Sam's ability, record and style is fair and reasonable and those demanding our love and respect for him should indeed respect the views of others, which has been badly missing on this over bloated thread.
That's all I can say on this matter at the moment and I repeat my sentiment that we'll have to wait and see if this current purple patch solidifies in to a sound basis for our club going forward!?
You're being patient which is great. But you're also slating the last 3 years. Which is fair enough as it's a forum and that's what it's designed for. But I would say that so far Allardyce has had 3 and a half good seasons out of 4 and a half.
You call him lucky to be West Ham manager. I think we're lucky to have him.
Opinions eh.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist
surprising fact:
Sam Allardyce is the 10th longest serving manager in all the divisions down to the Conference.
Sam Allardyce is the 10th longest serving manager in all the divisions down to the Conference.
Last edited by hammer the hamster on Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Clacton-ammer
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist
Beat me to it TTS :lol:
I hate these awards, so many times it goes tits up straight after!!!! We know it is coming as it's us, and we are very good at it, just not tomorrow please god of fate!
I hate these awards, so many times it goes tits up straight after!!!! We know it is coming as it's us, and we are very good at it, just not tomorrow please god of fate!
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist
Top post!Babooshka wrote:That's all I can say on this matter at the moment and I repeat my sentiment that we'll have to wait and see if this current purple patch solidifies in to a sound basis for our club going forward!?
- DaveWHU1964
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist
No it wasn't. It was the usual load of old b*ll*cks. But "some financial difficulty" did at least make me smile.
Anyway, never mind. Congrats Sam on your second manager of the month in 2014. Who'd have thunk that a cowardly, no plan 'B', fat, blah blah blah dinosaur could fool the footballing world twice in a few months eh?
Anyway, never mind. Congrats Sam on your second manager of the month in 2014. Who'd have thunk that a cowardly, no plan 'B', fat, blah blah blah dinosaur could fool the footballing world twice in a few months eh?
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist
:lol:DaveWHU1964 wrote:No it wasn't. It was the usual load of old b*ll*cks.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist
IndeedDaveWHU1964 wrote:No it wasn't. It was the usual load of old b*ll*cks. But "some financial difficulty" did at least make me smile.
Anyway, never mind. Congrats Sam on your second manager of the month in 2014. Who'd have thunk that a cowardly, no plan 'B', fat, blah blah blah dinosaur could fool the footballing world twice in a few months eh?
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist
Hes won it twice in 7 months and hes the first west ham manager to win it twice
Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist
Turns to Stone wrote:
You don't have to do anything, Babooshka....aside from accepting that other people will have different opinions to you.
You're being patient which is great. But you're also slating the last 3 years. Which is fair enough as it's a forum and that's what it's designed for. But I would say that so far Allardyce has had 3 and a half good seasons out of 4 and a half.
You call him lucky to be West Ham manager. I think we're lucky to have him.
Opinions eh.
Was going to post but you've summed up exactly what I was going to say but you've probably put it 100x better.
Sam was the perfect appointment for us after we got relegated and for me, we were extremely lucky to get him, especially after the way we'd treated Zola, the fact that we'd gone down and the way the owners just didn't seem to have any sort of plan.
Since we've had him, like TTS says we've had 3 and a half decent seasons out of 4 and a half. He got us straight back up, gave us one of the most memorable days of our lives at Wembley and has quite comfortably kept us in the Prem.
Now he's consolidated us he's drastically improved the style of football and we're punching well above our weight in 5th place, going into each game thinking we can beat anyone. Long may it continue (into the OS)
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