Allardyce: Stick or twist?

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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby westlondonhammer on Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:44 am

The team put out should have won - and after last weeks awful personal performance I am not surprised Amalfitano was dropped (although I would have preferred to see him start yesterday for our shape) so I can understand why we went with the team we did even if our shape could have been better.

Despite the excellent start we've had I do feel Sam is still working out who our best 11 is - I am not sure Song, Noble and Kouyate all go into it when we are home and the onus is to attack and I think Sam would have learnt that this weekend. Just as I am not sure I'd start Collins in those games (despite his form and not doing anything major wrong on the weekend) as I think Tomkins offer more when we have the ball - but I'm not going to criticise Sam not dropping a form player.

Given he is still working out his best team after a lot of players came in over the summer, there will be performances that aren't perfect and to be sitting where we are is magnificent.

All in all, despit all the above we did dominate, we should have won and we should be 2 points clear of Swansea right now, but we didn't and we are not but it's no car crash. We're still flying high and it's another point towards aim 1 (safety)

Comments dwelling on last season while are hugely disappointing to read are inevitable. While some have lead us to believe this isn't personal and it's all about football, comments talking about last season suggest otherwise. It seems the benefit of the doubt or attempts to understand go out of the window when other things are at stake.

Romford is right that people haven't flooded to the forum to be critical - but if they had given the season we are having right now I'd say it says much more about them than Sam or the team.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby RM6 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:45 am

wizzo_66 wrote:Why it's flared up since is because whenever anyone has come on to express that they didn't feel we were that bad, they've been told they need to take tablets, that what they're saying isn't the truth, that they're acting like they own the place, that they lack manners, etc etc.


A recurring theme across many threads and subjects...
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Turns to Stone on Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:46 am

If I didn't know any better, I would say that some of Romfords more recent posts read like clickbait.

Not one person that I've spoken to or read about, or listened to has suggested that Saturdays performances was a poor one. There was nothing cowardly about it, or defensive, it was decent solid performance against a team desperate for points who were well-organised and defended well. We missed 4 chances that we should have buried, Our strikers also took the wrong option on at least 3 occasions that should have led to a goal.

But then the post wasn't about that. It was a post to come on this thread and antagonise foou war no reason.

If you want to talk about the match performance, surely you do it in the match thread. If you think Allardyce got it wrong, then come and say it on here. But why come on to this thread to show off about the fact that no-one has been caling for Sam's head despite a poor performance....that no-one I have spoken to agrees with.

It's truly bizarre.

I thought we did ok. I don't think any West Ham fans expect us to play well 38 games a year, nor do they expect our strikers to put all their chances away. They expect us to play on the front foot at home and try and beat the opposition in front of us. That's what I saw on Saturday. Nothing else.

Maybe Allardyce could have his tactics different....well yeah, but to be honest, I don't expect him to be perfect. Just to go at teams now he has a squad good enough. He did.

Shall we put this thread to bed now, or is is just here to go back to every after result and attack other posters because their predictions did not turn out accurate?
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Whufc06 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:47 am

I agree RM6, many are guilty of it though.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:12 am

FWIW thought we played well. Certainly better than majority of games last season. It was a pretty good game for a 0-0. I thought we might draw this one as Villa are not as bad a team as people make them out and were always going to dig in to stop the rot.
The main difference for me is that we wanted to win this game, and spent the majority on the front-foot. All of our substitutes were positive. I was expecting Nolan to come on for one of the front two but he didn't (which was a pleasant surprise). At no point in the game did we settle for a point, and I have not seen a West Ham team go all out to turn one point into three as much as we did in the last five minutes on Saturday.
We probably went wide a bit too much for me but this is understandable given it has worked in other games. I would have liked to have seen a bit more guile and 'cuteness' through the middle to mix it up and unlock the door, but again, i can understand why Allardyce went for Song, Kouyate and Noble (it is just a shame the last two had poor games from an attacking perspective). I still think Demel is better going forward than Jenkinson,but obviously fitness is an issue there.
disappointed not to win, as the additional 2 points would have really separated us from the mid-table group, but no complaints about the mindset of the players and the effort put in from all concerned to not settle for a point

EDIT - just realised this should probably go in the match thread
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Sloop John B on Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:23 am

Turns to Stone wrote:If I didn't know any better, I would say that some of Romfords more recent posts read like clickbait.


Unfortunately so and he seems to have turned his name calling skills to poor old Adrian now. :lol:

Seems a lot of harsh criticism on the team selection to me. I can't see how anybody can know the 'best' line up. Allardyce is still learning about the players and most combinations of the team should be able to put on a decent performance... as they did on Saturday.

Obviously it's a sign of how well we've done so far this season that people are venting their frustrations over some very minor issues.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Romford_Iron on Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:41 am

I don't know why anyone is surprised with this result.

We were in a rich vein of form. Villa weren't and had been due a result.

The 'West Ham way' would have been to lose that game given the recent form of the two sides. But we didn't.

We came out and gave it a go, but it was just one of those days. We might not have won, but we're West Ham for ****'s sake, we're not going to win every game. Honestly it's like everyone has started believing we're a top 4 side all of a sudden.

Yes, Villa is a team we should be beating, but City are not. These things balance themselves out.

The best we can (and should) be asking for is that we come out, attack teams and give it ago. Instead of sitting back, soaking pressure and trying to nick a goal. That was what it was like last season, but that's not what it was like yesterday. We had an off day. Nothing less, nothing more. That's all.

Either-way; we're still sat in fourth and have a fairly kind run of games leading up to Christmas. Don't forget how different things were last year and be thankful for how things are going right now :thup:
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Up the Junction on Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:44 am

Turns to Stone wrote:Shall we put this thread to bed now....

It's tempting, but let's stick to the original plan for now. T-13.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Romford on Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:54 am

Turns to Stone wrote:If I didn't know any better, I would say that some of Romfords more recent posts read like clickbait.

Not one person that I've spoken to or read about, or listened to has suggested that Saturdays performances was a poor one. There was nothing cowardly about it, or defensive, it was decent solid performance against a team desperate for points who were well-organised and defended well. We missed 4 chances that we should have buried, Our strikers also took the wrong option on at least 3 occasions that should have led to a goal.

But then the post wasn't about that. It was a post to come on this thread and antagonise foou war no reason.

If you want to talk about the match performance, surely you do it in the match thread. If you think Allardyce got it wrong, then come and say it on here. But why come on to this thread to show off about the fact that no-one has been caling for Sam's head despite a poor performance....that no-one I have spoken to agrees with.

It's truly bizarre.

I thought we did ok. I don't think any West Ham fans expect us to play well 38 games a year, nor do they expect our strikers to put all their chances away. They expect us to play on the front foot at home and try and beat the opposition in front of us. That's what I saw on Saturday. Nothing else.

Maybe Allardyce could have his tactics different....well yeah, but to be honest, I don't expect him to be perfect. Just to go at teams now he has a squad good enough. He did.

Shall we put this thread to bed now, or is is just here to go back to every after result and attack other posters because their predictions did not turn out accurate?


You really have to laugh....

A poster that ADMITS at the end of his long winded post that the managers tactics to be wrong has a pop at someone who has had the audacity to say EXACTLY the same

The only thing we should put to bed are people that use 1000 words to say a line.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby the pink palermo on Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:57 am

Only at West Ham could a debate be raging about the Managers abilities when sitting in 4th place with around a third of the season gone .

Having said that , I do see a little bit of where Romford is coming from - essentially , Villa are a poor side , and in reality if we really want to cement a place in the upper echelons we need to beat them .

On the other hand, sometimes football is unpredictable , and that's why we love it .Our point at Chelsea last season would, before KO, have been down as a home banker for them , and yet we were one of only two teams to get a point at the Bridge last season .

Sometimes the ball just doesn't drop to the right person, sometimes the ref has a mare - three penalty shouts in one phase of play not given , a brilliant save to deny Carroll ......

Could Sam have sent out a different team ? Of course . Would they have done any better ? We'll never know .

What we know is we're fourth going into the break .

Every single fan I know would have bitten your hand off for both that position and the way we've achieved it at the start of the season and for that the Manager and most importantly the players deserves credit .

Onwards and upwards .The Toffees next , and if we get a result there we may have real grounds for optimisim .

From the depths of despair to the peak of hope .Bouncebackability for sure . :wink:
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Romford on Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:01 pm

Up the Junction wrote:It's tempting, but let's stick to the original plan for now. T-13.


Why ?? Because we have had a great start we cannot say that the manager got it wrong....

The myth that everyone comes on to moan about Sam after a below par performance was blasted away yesterday which started this argument.

Then it's made out that I came on here just to start grief.

The Sam fan club want it all ways....as usual.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby RM6 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:03 pm

the pink palermo wrote:Having said that , I do see a little bit of where Romford is coming from - essentially , Villa are a poor side , and in reality if we really want to cement a place in the upper echelons we need to beat them .


I'm sure the Scouse and those in the Council House said likewise about losing to us.

As I'm sure Stoke did about throwing 2 points away against us last week.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Romford on Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:03 pm

Sloop John B wrote:
Unfortunately so and he seems to have turned his name calling skills to poor old Adrian now. :lol:

Seems a lot of harsh criticism on the team selection to me. I can't see how anybody can know the 'best' line up. Allardyce is still learning about the players and most combinations of the team should be able to put on a decent performance... as they did on Saturday.

Obviously it's a sign of how well we've done so far this season that people are venting their frustrations over some very minor issues.


Yet again another with a "decent performance" rubbish.

Where have i mentioned the keeper this weekend ??
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Turns to Stone on Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:05 pm

Romford wrote:
You really have to laugh....

A poster that ADMITS at the end of his long winded post that the managers tactics to be wrong has a pop at someone who has had the audacity to say EXACTLY the same

The only thing we should put to bed are people that use 1000 words to say a line.


But you're not having a pop at the manager. You came on this thread to specifically taunt posters that backed the manager because they had complained that whenever we lose this thread it full of nonsense, in the same way that whenever we win, this thread is always full of nonsense.

For the first time in a long time, this thread did not get brought up. You took it on youself to drag it back to up to whinge about a poor performance that no-one else saw.

It's your opinion, and i'm a moderate posterso am happy to accept that, but I think it's daft to drag up a very frustrating thread to make a point that really didn't need making.

Also, If you want me to post less words from now on, just let me know and I'll edit from now on.

I would imagine that most people on here just choose not to read them.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Up the Junction on Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:19 pm

Romford wrote:Why ?? Because we have had a great start we cannot say that the manager got it wrong....

Because we're fourth in the league, we're almost certainly going to fare better than in any previous season under Allardyce and nobody in their right mind will be suggesting we should twist, which is was this thread is (or was) all about.

The argument is dead, it's now about squabbling and scoring petty points.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Romford on Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:25 pm

westham,eggyandchips wrote:
What exactly have you told the truth about? Its just another anti-Sam pop. As I said earlier, I dont recall you seeing you on this thread when we beat City, Liverpool or Burnley (against a manager you were banging on about as a possible successor to Sam BTW). and I want to know why thats all.


It wasn't an anti Sam pop at all.....it was a pop at you lot who make out that people are unfair to Sam. There was one post...for or against.....on this thread until yesterday lunchtime.

You are the rest of the Sam love-in make out that we this place is too negative etc. Yesterday proved you wrong.

As for the rest....you think bringing on Cole and Nolan is not reverting to his old bad habits ?

Laughable :lol:

Do me a favour...don't send me pms about respect when you talk to me how you have here.

I'm one of the few moderators who bothers still coming on to this site now...it's not really surprising when they get spoken to like i have on this thread.

PS...I wasn't on the thread after those wins because we played well....apart from the first half at Burnley. The manager changed it at half time and we came back fantastically...well done Sam.

Your point ?
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Romford on Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:31 pm

Up the Junction wrote:Because we're fourth in the league, we're almost certainly going to fare better than in any previous season under Allardyce and nobody in their right mind will be suggesting we should twist, which is was this thread is (or was) all about.

The argument is dead, it's now about squabbling and scoring petty points.


Not at all....

We should have more points against the teams we have played. That is the way progress is made in my book.

You have one side saying we played well on Sunday and mugging off anyone who has the audacity to say that the manager got it wrong.

Where else should i put the the myth being cobblers ??

What i'm more bothered about i the total lack of class and respect I have recieved. You wonder why moderators are very thin on the ground Boss.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby RM6 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:34 pm

Romford wrote:You have one side saying we played well on Sunday.


We played well enough to win, finishing aside.
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Markt85 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:38 pm

Romford , what on earth is your actual point ...

we drew 0-0 'most' people agree we played well and very unlucky not to grab the 3 points...

so because loads didn't jump in here and whinge and cry like they would of done last season is quite refreshing to see, but only because we sit in 4th place. Im sure many would have jumped in here and gone overboard about the result on Saturday, blaming tactics, the manager and anything they can think of if we had a poor start to the season and were sitting below mid table.

But like i say, its refreshing to see the anti sam fans not moaning on here for once...so what is your point again ?! :eh:
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Re: Allardyce: Stick or twist

Postby Romford on Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:40 pm

Turns to Stone wrote:But you're not having a pop at the manager. You came on this thread to specifically taunt posters that backed the manager because they had complained that whenever we lose this thread it full of nonsense, in the same way that whenever we win, this thread is always full of nonsense.

For the first time in a long time, this thread did not get brought up. You took it on youself to drag it back to up to whinge about a poor performance that no-one else saw.

It's your opinion, and i'm a moderate posterso am happy to accept that, but I think it's daft to drag up a very frustrating thread to make a point that really didn't need making.

Also, If you want me to post less words from now on, just let me know and I'll edit from now on.

I would imagine that most people on here just choose not to read them.


You do realise i HAVE to read every post...it's part of my job.

I made a point that this Myth that many of you bring up about Sam is not given a chance and is too quick to be moaned at.

NOBODY moaned at him.

It was only when people were trying to make out it was :

Unlucky
One of those days
Villa are a good side
Strikers had an off day
We pulverised them
Their kepper had a worldy
Blah Blah Blah

When the actual truth was we played too defensive in midfield and in the end reverted back to the tactics of last season.

You have made out that you never spoke to anyone who didn't think we played well....

I was in the EHWMC till midnight with and never heard one of your excuses all night.

We didn't do enough for the 90 minutes......and Sam subs made it easier for Villa.

The only time when they really looked like crumbling was the last 5 when Carroll did his stuff.
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