|An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.
A win is a win and we desparately needed a win - so why don't I feel so good about it?
Always good to score five goals - but to to finish by giving away the last three goals in a game leaves a hollow feeling. Once again a team with ten men has scored against us.
Watching from my armchair (!) I thought Burnley were so bad they flattered us. We were okay first half, but shocking really in the second half. We gave a disjointed display that was typical of the players left on the field from 5-0 up. To think we put Faubert on from the bench to try and close them down.
From my view we should have conitnued to push on and take the game to them. A win by six or seven would have done better for the confidence - which was lacking in the game.
In the end we got what we needed. But the game, and our performance matched the flatness of the crowd. I don't rate Zola and I have the feeling that he has lost large parts of the dressing room. Some players are not motivated enough. Parker stood head and shoulders above all others yesterday. Franco was good - but most others were ordinary really. We were thumping a poor side until the point when we showed that we are also a poor side. Thankfully though we have started picking up points. One per game over the season will just keep us up.
Typically, we will beat Man U next week and put in a non stop all action high tempo performance. We will need to. Zola needs it.
This is the West Ham I grew up loving, high scoring, little nail bitting in the end. But no let's go back to the curbs era, dull boring 1-0 loss or win. 5 goals a win so we let a few in. A win is a win is a win. Everyone cheer up for f sake
Now watched football first and thought that a lot of our shortcomings were down to the midfield. Kovac was absolutely dire - never once did I see him break out into anything faster than an aimless jog and didn't provide the defence with any cover whatsoever. Stanislas and Collison are youthful attack minded players and haven't necessarily developed the experience needed for their defensive duties and the rock that is Parker can't do it all on his own. The defence were caught ball watching a lot, some of which is understandable given that they haven't played that much together ...once they are used to each other's style things will improve. No wonder Green stayed rooted on his line.
However, on an attacking front we were great - Franco is key to things and seems to be getting a good undertanding with Cole. Stan and Collison kept on going, Parker's vision for the first goal was great and the set pieces paid dividends. 5 different scorers and 3 points at the end of the day. I think there were more positives than negatives and those negatives can be worked on ....unfortunately not in time for next week though methinks!!
BTW only 5 clubs have scored more than us this season ...shame about a similar number have conceded more too.
Last edited by pablo jaye on Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well, the three goals is a bummer, but we are scoring loads and loads, which is nice - that near relegation season, I remember so many awful 1-0 scrappy defeats like at home to Reading.
If we can sort the defence we'll be top drawer.
Defensive cover from certain individuals yesterday,was sadly missing,young Stanislas does not
even understand the basics of whats expected of him,he has no problem running forward,but he puts
zero effort in getting back and helping Illunga,the first half he exposed Illunga to Eagles & CO,and no
different in the second,and yesterday Da Costa ball watched so muched,i am surprised Fletcher did not
score a hatrick,i would be putting in a cheeky bid for Eagles,the kid had a stormer,exposing our weaknesses
lazy wide midfielders,not tracking back
Agreed. For the first goal he trundled back half-heartedly to help out Spector against Eagles, and for the third he simply stood there ball-watching when there were two or three Burnley players goal-side, and none at all behind him.
I personally thought it was all down to poxy tactics...
We found out where the Oppositions weaknesses were...and then changed the whole shape and set up of the team to play to their strengths when we were "safe".
I think the little Italian needs to have a long hard look at himself
Their best player by a mile was Eagles...and to let Spector look after him for the whole game was madness. Hines was never going to be able to hold the ball up and if we were going to let them have the vast majority of the ball in the latter stages I'm afraid it didn't take Einstein to work out the results.
The defence needed confidence yesterday...and GFZ played the last 20 mins as if he wanted to see them torn apart.
Great result, could have easily been a banana skin for us. Yes Burnley were poor, but you can only beat what is in front of you.
Parker was outstanding, as was Franco today. Illunga needs to work harder on his defensive game otherwise he is in danger of becoming a one season wonder.
Great confidence booster for the kids.
Green worried me today, was quiet and looked like he expected to conceed.
Great result in an otherwise poor season, looking forward to being at UP for the Man Utd game next week.
franco is becoming one of our key players IMO. his movement and channel running have given us an outlet we haven't had since bellamy left.....could turn out to be the difference between staying up and going down
.....and whilst I have no doubt that kovac must be a very fine player in a certain style of international football I just can't see it on his west ham performances - have terrorists attached a bomb to his @rse that will explode if he breaks into a sprint?
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Totally agree with this.
I personally can not understand the substitutions, 5 - nil up, Burnley finished and we invite them to have a go at us..
The moment Franco, who had a terrific game, left the pitch we were a different team. I would have left it the same and really put them to the sword.
And as for Kovac, i'm not even going to go there....
I accept the substitutions left us poorly ser up to defend from the front.
But all three of their goals came from tap ins by Burnley players standing in front of our goal unmarked. Defenders were close by but none of them picked up the Burnley attackers.
That seems like utterly basic stuff. Pick strikers up and stay with them and goalside. Had we done that then at least all three of their finishes would have had to be done under pressure with a chance of marking them miss or get a block in.
Looking at things from Green's point of view he was looking out at a horror story with waves of strikers wandering around the box unchallenged, He had several tough calls on whether to leave his line and close one of many attackers or to stay back and hope one of his defenders decides to earn their salary.
The good news is that reminding defnders they are supposed to mark the opposition for the whole game should be a message the coaches can get across.
First you said we were 5 up at half-time in a previous post, now youre saying we were 4 up. We were 3 up ffs. You were clearly pissed during the game or wasn't there judging by the b*llocks youre spouting.
I'm a little confused about suggestions that Burnley were terrible. I thought that they played well in the first half and contributed to an enjoyable game.
The reality for us is the lack of defensive rigidity is going to mean that we will always struggle to keep clean sheets. The point about Stanislas is fairly made; he can't consider himself 'finished product' if it doesn't even appear to cross his mind to track back and support his defender.
Ilunga too is not the player we discovered last season. Not good news without his having any realistic competition for his place.
However, for me at least, the most confusing aspect of tactics yesterday was the choice of Kovac alongside Parker when Noble was apparently fit enough to be on the bench. Kovac is not good enough for our team. I've been trying to see the point of his being selected alongside Parker and I can't see one.
So, it was like starting the game with 10 men, one of whom neglects defensive duties. Winning a 'must win' game by two goals was - in those circumstances - a reasonable feat.
And last week he got slated for not shutting up shop at 2-0 - amazing!!!
Surely 4-0 up with 30 minutes to go is the ideal time for Jimenez and Hines to be given a chance - imagine if Franco had took a knock after Cole had already gone off.
As for the 3 goals - I imagine that Ray Stewart or Lucas Neill (even Faubert) would have put Eagles into the dugout after the first time they got shown up.
Spector was a bit too polite with his defending..
Let's start by giving Burnley some credit .
They kept going and fought well , even when our fifth went in they showed the strength of charecter to score three themselves and give us a ( small) fright .Their No. 33 had a fantastic match .
Now lets praise a couple of our lads .Parker was immense and gave the perfect display yesterday , closely followed by Franco who is a thoroughbred and oozed class .Collison did well , and da Costa and Gabbs did ok for most of the game .
The problem areas for the team have been well covered by other posters and I won't dwell on those with the exception of Kovac .
As good as Parker was, Kovac was bad .Mark Noble must be sat on the bench regretting not sending Zolas wife a birthday card , because for the life of me I can't see how Kovac gets the nod ahead of him .
The substitituions were poorly thought through IMO .Three up when Cole went off would have been an ideal opportuity to bring on Nouble , and to throw on Jimenez for Franco was bizarre .Most of out problems came once Franco departed and for this I lay the blame , yes , blame , at the foot of GFZ .To make the substitution, to protect Franco, was the correct thing to do .The selection of Jimenez was wrong .
But lets finish as positively as we can.Despite a few boos at the end - poor show chaps- we got the win against a second newly promoted side , and need to do the same against the third of them in a fortnights time away to Birmingham .
It ws a good game yesterday , and 14 goals in 2 games to keep us entertained can't be all bad .
We are no in no position to complain about how we accrue our points. It was a vital 3 points required and a vital 3 points got.
As for out defence it's discipline their lacking, not confidence.
Agree about Kovac not being good enough - but I can see the point of the formation
A holding midfielder allowing Parker to get forward, with two pretty straightforward wide players who score goals.
I've always felt we played a diamond, or 4-5-1 to compensate for the weaknesses of our players rather than play to their strengths.
If you take Kovac out and put a good energetic defensive(or all round) midfielder there it's a straightforward 4-4-2 - with wide players that get shots in and cross the ball - rather than having to play defensive runners with no technical ability....
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