Captain Kevin Nolan

[upton o'good]

Are Nolan's 9 goals this season really that impressive? Who's saying that if someone else was played in the main man role that they wouldn't have contributed to 25 of our goals this season? I like to see a bit of creativity coming through the middle and he just doesn't fit the bill in that sense. Yep, he's got a decent goals return this season but with a more rounded player in there chances are our overall goals tally would be higher

I'd say 9 goals is a botha disappointment and execelllent...

Disappointing - as i would have hoped for more.

But excellent because Nolan hasnt - as is suggested here - been playing in the hole behind the striker. He's mostly played quite a bit deeper than that, which reduces the number of chances he gets. The reason for that is the lack of athleticism elsewhere in midefield (now i am not saying Nolan is an athlete himself...).

The reason Nolan plus Noble doesnt always work too well in midfield is because neither has much of an engine. So one is pushed to go 4-5-1. We could be more 4-4-1-1 with Nolan genuinely playing off the striker if the 4 picked for the midfield positions could do the job without having a 5th man drop back and help out all the time.

IInjuries genuinely arent helping, nor are some strange selections. But the question on "fault" comes down to:

DCould we selecta midfield 4 that can dominate opponents at least at home, allowing us the luxury of Noaln off a striker - in which case it is down to Sam's ovr-cution.
Or do we just not have the players... (arguably also on Sam - but dynamic box-tobox midfielders are hard to find)

Either way, slagging off Nolan for not being a different platyer, and failing to approeciate what he does offer is plain stupid.



I

[Bobby Orangeboom]

Theres not really much difference though is there. He is played on the left or right side of a 5 man midfield and is expected to work up both ends of the pitch. It is a complete different kettle of fish to his preferred role

Yeah there's a lot of difference actually YWN, it's called the shape of a team.

A winger is a player who is expected to provide width for a team at all times when his team is in possession of the ball, a winger is expected to cross the ball before or after taking on the oppositions full back amongst other things.

Jack Collison is not a winger nor plays in the role of one.

& again i'll go back to this " preferred role " nonsense.

It seems to me as if he's been played out of position as some argue, for 3 or 4 different Managers for his whole career mostly now, does that not tell you that this " preferred role " that many refer to, isn't in fact his best position at all ??

& if it is, why do other players ALWAYS get the nod on it in front of him, under 3 or 4 different Managers ??

[The Moth]

Whhhoooooaaaa there Cowboy, i'm not saying Nolan has had a wonderful season, i'm not even saying he's had a good season, all i'm saying is that he has scored very important goals that i personally would have no faith in any other of our other squad players in getting if they were played in the position he does week in week out.

Thanks for telling me what youre not saying, how about give your opinion. Forget about classing certain goals as important, theyre all important. Simple question, is Nolans 9 goals ,given the determining factors, sufficient thus far?

Seeing as our manager is insisting our finishing is the issue, its a worthy debate imo.

[Yea Why Not]

Yeah there's a lot of difference actually YWN, it's called the shape of a team.

A winger is a player who is expected to provide width for a team at all times when his team is in possession of the ball, a winger is expected to cross the ball before or after taking on the oppositions full back amongst other things.

Jack Collison is not a winger nor plays in the role of one.

& again i'll go back to this " preferred role " nonsense.

It seems to me as if he's been played out of position as some argue, for 3 or 4 different Managers for his whole career mostly now, does that not tell you that this " preferred role " that many refer to, isn't in fact his best position at all ??

& if it is, why do other players ALWAYS get the nod on it in front of him, under 3 or 4 different Managers ??

OK, what ever. He plays the 'Central midfielder playing on the wing' role. It doesn't make much difference to me. A player playing on the right or left of a midfield 5 to me is playing on 'the wing'

I agree with the second bit. He hasn't been given much of a chance in his preferred role. Under Zola I could understand it, young player and all that. But I will ask, how many players have actually played in a similar role a head of him? Parker (kind of, end to end through the middle), Noble, Nolan, Diamanti (lolz). Am I missing any? Maybe 1 or 2 who have played a few games. Theres 2 established players and a managers favourite who earns 55k a week there. Not exactly easy competition for the boy

[Bobby Orangeboom]

Thanks for telling me what youre not saying, how about give your opinion. Forget about classing certain goals as important, theyre all important. Simple question, is Nolans 9 goals ,given the determining factors, sufficient thus far?

Seeing as our manager is insisting our finishing is the issue, its a worthy debate imo.

Ok cool, not sure why you're after my personal opinion as it makes no difference to anything but there we go.

I would like Nolan to score more goals, i had him at the start of the season down as scoring 13 - 15 seasons which i think he'll get which would then give him, in my opinion, a for the season as i found that an acceptable total to a promotion campaign where he was personally concerned..

Problem is though, my other predictions :

===

Cole will score 20 plus
Nolan i think will score 13 - 15
Collison will score 10 - 12

The rest will have to score a combined 45 or so Goals..

Noble 8 or so
Stanislas 5 or so
Sears 5 or so
Second Striker 12 or more hopefully
& another 10 combined between other Midfielders & Defenders..

Very achievable in my opinion.

===

[ashbanki]

I did not say Nolan's only contribution, this season, was getting sent of - IMO it was his biggest, because we saw a better shape team, more desire and fight and a glimpse of the footballing team we can be.Yes he's scored goals, but then his role is second striker ffs! Lallana and Lambert have scored 40 goals between them -Nolan and Cole have managed 18!!
To incorperate Nolan into the team we have to play Noble,Collison,Maynard and Baldock out of position.

[Hockley Hammer]

Nolan does not play as the second striker. Even his critics think that is where he should play.

Nolan was brought in to be skipper and to contribute goals from midfield, he has done both. His performances have not been as good overall as I imagined, but you could say that about most of our team this season.

His goals should have been a bonus, but have become a necessity because of poor finishing in game after game since the start of the season.

In most games I have seen, some of the best passes in the game are his, first time crisply hit to feet, there is good defensive covering, vital interceptions, taking up fantastic positions in the opposing penalty area.

Why is he always where a forward should be but they are ten yards away having reacted miles too slowly to the possibility.

I would accept some of the criticism if it was so obvious that his inclusion is holding back another player who would contribute more. I keep asking where is this player?

As somebody said above we are not praising a player for what he does, we are critical of him not being a different player. If more of our players raised their game and performed to their abilities, we might not over analyse the performance of somebody doing exactly what they were bought for.

[brooking10]

Hockley, in my eyes you're absolutely right, but no doubt someone will pick holes in your post. If Nolan wasn't supposedly in competition with a couple of Academy graduates, and had no previous history with Allardyce I don't even think we'd still be having this debate.

[ihateroeder]

So we want a midfielder who works box to box, tackles, passes and creates chances, aswell as scores 15+ goals a season, let me think

[ihateroeder]

Nolan does not play as the second striker. Even his critics think that is where he should play.

Nolan was brought in to be skipper and to contribute goals from midfield, he has done both. His performances have not been as good overall as I imagined, but you could say that about most of our team this season.

His goals should have been a bonus, but have become a necessity because of poor finishing in game after game since the start of the season.

In most games I have seen, some of the best passes in the game are his, first time crisply hit to feet, there is good defensive covering, vital interceptions, taking up fantastic positions in the opposing penalty area.

Why is he always where a forward should be but they are ten yards away having reacted miles too slowly to the possibility.

I would accept some of the criticism if it was so obvious that his inclusion is holding back another player who would contribute more. I keep asking where is this player?


As somebody said above we are not praising a player for what he does, we are critical of him not being a different player. If more of our players raised their game and performed to their abilities, we might not over analyse the performance of somebody doing exactly what they were bought for.

[Turns to Stone]

Hockley, in my eyes you're absolutely right, but no doubt someone will pick holes in your post. If Nolan wasn't supposedly in competition with a couple of Academy graduates, and had no previous history with Allardyce I don't even think we'd still be having this debate.

They can pick holes in Hockley's argument, but they'd be the same holes that have been picked all season and are largely irrelevent.

Kevin Nolna has an incredible ability to arrive in the box, in space and at exactly the right time. A skill that very few people have. Nolan's goalscoring rates for the last 10 seasons (for the level of club he has been at) are right up there with Lampard, Platt and Scholes in terms of goalscoring midfielders.

9 goals for a man that hasn't started a single game up front is a superb return. I'm tired of arguing for him though. The people on here that slate him (and before people get defensive I'm aware of the differences in slating someone and questioning their validity in the side - I'm looking at you, Oust ) do so because they either don't understand his position, or because he's part of the Allardyce regime that they get so much pleasure out of hating.

It's very, very boring.

[Clucking Bell]

So we want a midfielder who works box to box, tackles, passes and creates chances, aswell as scores 15+ goals a season, let me think

Iniesta, Fabregas or Ronaldo then. Fifty million and two hundred and fifty grand a week should do it.

[Bobby Orangeboom]

Nolan does not play as the second striker. Even his critics think that is where he should play.

Nolan was brought in to be skipper and to contribute goals from midfield, he has done both. His performances have not been as good overall as I imagined, but you could say that about most of our team this season.

His goals should have been a bonus, but have become a necessity because of poor finishing in game after game since the start of the season.

In most games I have seen, some of the best passes in the game are his, first time crisply hit to feet, there is good defensive covering, vital interceptions, taking up fantastic positions in the opposing penalty area.

Why is he always where a forward should be but they are ten yards away having reacted miles too slowly to the possibility.

I would accept some of the criticism if it was so obvious that his inclusion is holding back another player who would contribute more. I keep asking where is this player?

As somebody said above we are not praising a player for what he does, we are critical of him not being a different player. If more of our players raised their game and performed to their abilities, we might not over analyse the performance of somebody doing exactly what they were bought for.

Best and most accurate post on the whole thread.

[Aztec Hammer]

Nolan does not play as the second striker. Even his critics think that is where he should play.

Nolan was brought in to be skipper and to contribute goals from midfield, he has done both. His performances have not been as good overall as I imagined, but you could say that about most of our team this season.

His goals should have been a bonus, but have become a necessity because of poor finishing in game after game since the start of the season.

In most games I have seen, some of the best passes in the game are his, first time crisply hit to feet, there is good defensive covering, vital interceptions, taking up fantastic positions in the opposing penalty area.

Why is he always where a forward should be but they are ten yards away having reacted miles too slowly to the possibility.

I would accept some of the criticism if it was so obvious that his inclusion is holding back another player who would contribute more. I keep asking where is this player?

As somebody said above we are not praising a player for what he does, we are critical of him not being a different player. If more of our players raised their game and performed to their abilities, we might not over analyse the performance of somebody doing exactly what they were bought for.

Uh oh, I'm going to come off as 'that guy' who tries to pick holes in what was a great post. I promise this isn't my intention though and this is certainly not a critical post of Big Kev. I like what he brings to the team, especially as captain and when we are playing away. Can't dispute the stats, away records about to be broken etc. But...

Hockley, for me, Nolan is definitely a problem at times, especially when we are playing at home. As often as it has been his goals that have got us the 3 points, I personally feel like with someone else in his place, be it Jack, Lansbury or more recently, Ravel, we may have got 3 points from the games that we have drawn, i.e. Boro where he was as I have seen all too often, completely anonymous.

Saying that, I was at the Cov game back in January, and remember saying to my missus as it was her first game, that he does **** all but can just as easily get the all important goal... and that was the exact case on that day. So it definitely goes both ways with Big Kev.

Whilst I can definitely agree with those who point out Doncaster and Brighton away, Coventry at home as games where Nolan has been the difference between 1 point and 3 points... I can't help but wonder, in how many games has an anonymous Nolan perhaps resulted in us getting a draw instead of a win. Would Collison or Ravel have brought more to those specific games in that position? Looking at Boro the other night, I genuinely feel that someone else in place of Nolan from the start might have resulted in us providing more pace and attacking threat on the ground, and maybe we would have scored more than the one that we did.

I think there is definitely a case to be made that Big Kev is a little bit of a luxury. 9 goals, many of them crucial and I am incredibly thankful for, no doubt. But what else? 0 assists is absolutely terrible for an advanced midfielder, however you look at it.

When he doesn't score, he really doesn't add much to the team's actual play at all. Good captain it seems, though I recall a game recently when he was giving it his usual screaming and shouting and pointing at teammates and then someone gave it right back to him... maybe they were getting a little sick of it all considering his lack of contribution to the play outside of those 9 goals.

[Bobby Orangeboom]

I think there is definitely a case to be made that Big Kev is a little bit of a luxury. 9 goals, many of them crucial and I am incredibly thankful for, no doubt. But what else? 0 assists is absolutely terrible for an advanced midfielder, however you look at it.

When he doesn't score, he really doesn't add much to the team's actual play at all. Good captain it seems, though I recall a game recently when he was given it his usual screaming and shouting and pointing at teammates and then someone gave it right back to him... maybe they were getting a little sick of it all considering his lack of contribution to the play outside of those 9 goals.

Just to clarify, we're pointing the finger at Nolan even though we admit that his 9 goals have been crucial, but he doesn't offer nothing else.

What's your thinking behind Noble, Faubert and Collison then out of curiosity, with 4 goals between them from open play and 12 assists, in 85 starts between them ??

[Cuenca 'ammer]

Aztec

[Bobby Orangeboom]

Aztec

Feel free to answer the above to your post too, and no swerving..

[Aztec Hammer]

I think there is definitely a case to be made that Big Kev is a little bit of a luxury. 9 goals, many of them crucial and I am incredibly thankful for, no doubt. But what else? 0 assists is absolutely terrible for an advanced midfielder, however you look at it.

When he doesn't score, he really doesn't add much to the team's actual play at all. Good captain it seems, though I recall a game recently when he was given it his usual screaming and shouting and pointing at teammates and then someone gave it right back to him... maybe they were getting a little sick of it all considering his lack of contribution to the play outside of those 9 goals.

Just to clarify, we're pointing the finger at Nolan even though we admit that his 9 goals have been crucial, but he doesn't offer nothing else.

What's your thinking behind Noble, Faubert and Collison then out of curiosity, with 4 goals between them from open play and 12 assists, in 85 starts between them ??

Nolan's goals have been crucial in those games. But you can't deny there have been a good amount of matches where he hasn't scored and with that, hasn't offered much of anything in those games.

As I said, I'm not trying to dig him out, I'm thankful that he brings something (goals, the most important thing) that seemingly no-one else in the team can. But that doesn't mean I can't point out some of the deficiencies in his game that clearly come to the fore in matches when he doesn't get his goal.

As for your question, truthfully:

Noble - best ball playing MF in the team. Makes himself available as much as he can and attempts to create openings for others. Struggles to do this in our team when we don't like to play on the ground, pass and move stuff too much. Also struggles because he isn't fantastic at passing and doesn't have elite vision and creativity, which says a lot about us a team considering he is head and shoulders above anyone else in those categories.

Faubert - honestly, pure ****. Appreciate the effort this year but he's just not good. For the life of me, it's tough to see someone who is paid to be a winger cross that many straight over the goal and into the stand. Terrible finishing, terrible touch. As I say, I like the effort and the harrying when the other team have the ball though.

Collison - I've always been a fan and still am. Had a hard time the last few years with everything that's happened to him. Still coming back into it all. I've noticed a gradual improvement in fitness and getting his touch back. Wasted out on the wings. Would like to at least feel like Nolan is not untouchable and that Collison can get a game or two in his position without Kev having to be suspended. Played a cracking game away at Blackpool in his preferred position. I really feel that if he was played in an attacking midfield role, he'd have more influence on the game and notch more goals than he has.

[Yea Why Not]

Feel free to answer the above to your post too, and no swerving..

Cuenca,

A decent reply would be 'Can you please fu*k off with your sh*t stats please Bob'

[Cuenca 'ammer]

What else would you like me to answer ?

For every Nolan won us games with his goals, so did Noble's penalties, A Collison goal I think made us safe, Green playing a blinder on more than one occasion, McCartney off the line, Tonka getting a very a important goal for us, Collins last week, Faye in mid week. Only law court judges claim that one player can win you (3 games was it = 9 points the difference between the Blunts staying up or summat ?) games single handedly.

I think Aztec makes fair comments for and against. As I think have I and others. I haven't taken the stance that he's ***** or to sack BFS where exactly do you think I'm "swerving ?"