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Borthos
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Borthos »

brooking1966 wrote:
So what happens when players pass him with pace? Nobes is no threat to go passed a player, which makes him so easy to mark. His player can invariably cheat marking him which overloads our middle with runners.

What is this 'vision' Pirlo/Molby quality he's supposed to have. They lacked pace, but cutely used their bodies to turn out of pressure controlling the tempo & they never treated the ball like a hot potato

I don't see it, he was ok at 18- 21 yrs old showed a lot of promise, but he hasn't got better & is very average, sad wishful thinking that he will reach anything better.

At best he's a tenacious tackler over 10yds always in the thick of the action blood & guts, but all I see now is an air traffic controller.
The idea being he'd be deep enough so if a player gets past him, they're quite high up the pitch already and it's congested with attackers and defenders. Noble's problem is when players get past him around in the centre circle, they've got space to stretch their legs and really run at our defenders and make them go a bit Roger Johnson.

He does have decent vision, not the level of Pirlo, and it'd be foolish to argue he does/ever did but it's there. The ball to Feghouli against Domzale this season for instance. I wouldn't count tackling as one of his fortés, more often than not he gives away the foul. I agree in terms of him not improving that much though. He was a bit of a revelation when he first broke into the team, but has stagnated a bit - our relegation probably didn't help. I personally saw a lot more improvement in Collison over their years together and were it not for the injuries think he would have been a considerably better player in the end.
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brooking1966
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by brooking1966 »

Borthos wrote:
The idea being he'd be deep enough so if a player gets past him, they're quite high up the pitch already and it's congested with attackers and defenders. Noble's problem is when players get past him around in the centre circle, they've got space to stretch their legs and really run at our defenders and make them go a bit Roger Johnson.

He does have decent vision, not the level of Pirlo, and it'd be foolish to argue he does/ever did but it's there. The ball to Feghouli against Domzale this season for instance. I wouldn't count tackling as one of his fortés, more often than not he gives away the foul. I agree in terms of him not improving that much though. He was a bit of a revelation when he first broke into the team, but has stagnated a bit - our relegation probably didn't help. I personally saw a lot more improvement in Collison over their years together and were it not for the injuries think he would have been a considerably better player in the end.
Agree about Collison he was getting special before the injury he had goals too. Trying to fit Noble in the starting 11 with the squad we have is a problem. Too slow to be caught upfield but suspect tackler to be played deep DM near our box. He has the physicality of a young boy not a PL midfielder, Fernades/kouyate /obiang with Lanzini in front of them, would like to see Nords play DM for remainder of season just to see what he's got in his preferred position.
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e17
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by e17 »

Exiledin cardiff wrote:IMO we saw today Noble is way too slow for the system we play,and he's not as good as Nordy as DM, sad to say but I think next season he'll be a bench warmer
How many minutes of successful, match winning football are you basing that measured & balanced basis on as far as Noble or Nordtveit are concerned?

Noble is symptomatic of our season. Players all over the pitch who have gone from beating Liverpool, Arsenal & Man City, to scrapping draws at Stoke for survival. He's not outstanding in that scenario... I'd have never believed that Cresswell, Adrian or Lanzini* would have had the seasons they have, all have gone from key players, to having patchy years in claret & blue

(*I'd include Lanzini because for me he's been hot & cold for large spells)
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jaybs
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by jaybs »

Well what did Nordvelt do? what did Cresswell do? and of course Mr Holby City missing as so often. It's having a striker who can score regular with all assets we need and badly.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Puff Daddy »

We need to ask ourselves, is he really, truthfully and honestly, the best player we can get for the position he plays ? If he is, then it is a no brainer, he should play and he should stay. If he is not, then we should not keep him out of blind faithfulness by repaying his loyalty to us, with a weekly starting position. This is a business and I am sure he of all people, would respect and understand that any decision to part company so that the club can recruit somebody better and move onwards and upwards would not be taken lightly and that decision be taken out of what ius best for the club.
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Upton Carp
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Upton Carp »

RichieRiv wrote:Even Dan 'da bantz' Walker said we're unlikely to see another Mark Noble again. Praise indeed.

He's the last in a long line of one club legends. Guarantee that when he finally hangs up his boots people will be left scratching their heads wondering why we don't have more academy talent coming through the ranks that crucially stick around.

I'm a bit too young to really appreciate Billy Bonds, so I am just glad that I've witnessed the nearest thing to Bonzo this club is ever going to see again.
^^^ This.
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Mega Ron
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Mega Ron »

Puff Daddy wrote:We need to ask ourselves, is he really, truthfully and honestly, the best player we can get for the position he plays ? If he is, then it is a no brainer, he should play and he should stay. If he is not, then we should not keep him out of blind faithfulness by repaying his loyalty to us, with a weekly starting position. This is a business and I am sure he of all people, would respect and understand that any decision to part company so that the club can recruit somebody better and move onwards and upwards would not be taken lightly and that decision be taken out of what ius best for the club.
Why would upgrading Noble be a priority?

We still don't have a capable right back, a couple of reliable goalscorers, and a keeper (providing Adrian goes/stays mental).

I wouldn't trust this lot to upgrade on him anyway.
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Faubert's Boot
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Faubert's Boot »

Putting all the emotional biases aside, Noble should be a rotation player. He's too slow and concedes possession way too much. He works hard to get around the pitch and make challenges but ultimately it only takes 30 mins for him to start look like he's running through knee-high thick mud.

Since Nordtveit has slotted in at CDM we look much more mobile in midfield; Obiang, Nordtveit and Kouyate is looking like our best midfield. We shouldn't keep Noble in there for emotional reasons.
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by johnnyb »

RichieRiv wrote:Even Dan 'da bantz' Walker said we're unlikely to see another Mark Noble again. Praise indeed.

He's the last in a long line of one club legends. Guarantee that when he finally hangs up his boots people will be left scratching their heads wondering why we don't have more academy talent coming through the ranks that crucially stick around.

I'm a bit too young to really appreciate Billy Bonds, so I am just glad that I've witnessed the nearest thing to Bonzo this club is ever going to see again.
To put Mark into the same category as Billy Bonds is entering fantasy land.
Ifebbubbles
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Ifebbubbles »

The reason Nobles position needs sorting before we sort right back out is because it's one of the most important positions on the field. You can get away with playing players out of position at RB but often Nobles lack of speed and stamina is a big disadvantage to the team.
Last edited by Ifebbubbles on Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
johnnyb
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by johnnyb »

Has he ever been anything but an average player that suited an average team? I understand that he was the subject of transfer enquiries years ago but I really can't see that he would have been a regular in many other Premier League teams for so long other than West Ham. He seems a great bloke and loves West Ham but if he is still a starter next season then we won't be moving on. Sorry if most don't agree but that's my opinion.
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hammers92
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by hammers92 »

If Mark Noble has to sit on the bench next season then I'll be satisfied we actually did some amazing transfer business. Until then, he continues to be in my team.
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hammers92
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by hammers92 »

johnnyb wrote:Has he ever been anything but an average player that suited an average team? I understand that he was the subject of transfer enquiries years ago but I really can't see that he would have been a regular in many other Premier League teams for so long other than West Ham. He seems a great bloke and loves West Ham but if he is still a starter next season then we won't be moving on. Sorry if most don't agree but that's my opinion.
We're bouncing around mid table so to me, we are an average team. But he's been picked for the last 10 straight years by a few different managers, gonna have to replace him properly if the manager (or next one) wants to do so.
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RichieRiv
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by RichieRiv »

johnnyb wrote:To put Mark into the same category as Billy Bonds is entering fantasy land.
I didn't.

The "nearest thing" doesn't mean the same as category.
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the pink palermo
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by the pink palermo »

Still ought to be the first name on our team sheet every week .

What on earth is going on with our support when he is mugged off the way he is by some of them ?
Bribo
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Bribo »

I think he is/was underrated. He was captain of eng u21s for years and led the team to a final lost on pens. He is nearly 30 and yes he is slower than we'd like, but he is a leader. I think he has a part to play and was great last season, none of the team have been so good this season.

Let's step back. He doesn't need to be first on the team sheet. He is a leader and will add to the team in that way. We need a squad of players, not just a first 11, and for me, he is in the squad and up ther. Let nord have his moment, Mark will be pushing and challenging and the team will be better for competition.

I don't want him to leave, I want him to prove he deserves to be in the team and fight for his position. Glad we have competition now, ''tis a good thing
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Colours never run »

Here's a goody of a question that I want people to answer honestly...

West Ham vs Spurs - Do we continue with Nordtveit after back to back draws playing well and not doing a lot wrong, or play the Captain Noble in his place in such a fixture against Spurs?

I wouldn't hesitate in such a blood and thunder fixture to pick Noble knowing how much it means and what it takes to beat such a well drilled team in a fierce derby, I'll leave it to others to come to their own conclusions of who to pick.

I don't see us honestly playing both.
Ifebbubbles
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Ifebbubbles »

Nordveit. Whats the point of getting into the team and playing well if your going to be dropped for someone who understands a derby fixture more.
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Alan Pardew's Dad
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Alan Pardew's Dad »

the pink palermo wrote:Still ought to be the first name on our team sheet every week .

What on earth is going on with our support when he is mugged off the way he is by some of them ?
+1
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Colours never run »

Ifebbubbles wrote:Nordveit. Whats the point of getting into the team and playing well if your going to be dropped for someone who understands a derby fixture more.

Experience of playing and winning in such a fixture, that's the point. Nordtveit might also be the answer by we'd be unsure of whether he could cope with the intensity (he certainly wasn't at WHL when he came on giving away a pen). I don't think he'd be as well prepared as Noble who would be very vocal making sure people do their jobs to the letter.
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