Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

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Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby tavbet on Thu May 18, 2017 11:27 am

I know that the view of most football fans is that money is ruining football as we know/knew it but I think the formation of the Champions League has just as much impact.

When Europe's 'big' clubs threatened to break with UEFA and form a European Super League, UEFA caved in and created the monster we now know as the Champions League. Champions? Since when did finishing 2nd/3rd/4th class you as Champions?

Allowing also rans into the competition obviously gives the big clubs a better chance of staying on the gravy train but it also has a major impact on player transfers. How many times have we heard players saying they want to play Champions League football? Well here's a thought, try winning something first!

I wonder what football would be like now if we had stuck with the old European Cup. Would the Super League have happened and would it have survived? Would those of us on the outside even have cared?

Unfortunately we will never know..
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby fjthegrey on Thu May 18, 2017 11:30 am

Its only the European version of the Premier League.

There's no difference really.
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby Iron George on Thu May 18, 2017 11:56 am

Champions League is run by the moneyed clubs for the benefit of the moneyed clubs. The rich get richer every season and the divide between them and the rest grows ever larger.

The seeding system makes sure the big teams all get through to the round of 16 unlike the old European Cup where you just took your chances in the draw.

When they make the draw initially, you pretty much know that each group will be made up of one nailed on qualifier, one side that ought to progress , one side that is capable of upsetting the first two on a very good day and an also ran.

Most seasons you could predict 14 of the last 16 without having to think too hard.
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby Bitter 'n' Twisted on Thu May 18, 2017 12:02 pm

tavbet wrote:
…I wonder what football would be like now if we had stuck with the old European Cup. Would the Super League have happened and would it have survived?…


It did happen. It's called the "Champions League". All domestic fixtures are scheduled around those European games. So in effect there you have it. It's different from years ago but so is going to matches very different. It's just part of life. The longer you live the more changes you see. No big deal really.
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby fmgod on Thu May 18, 2017 12:39 pm

I don't even watch it till the knockouts now, by having the groups it gives the big teams a bigger chance of going through as they may slip up one game but not five, straight knockout is the way it should be be it won't because of £££

Also I think now days we can watch foreign football so easy back in the day it was exciting to me, to watch the likes Of Inter with Ronaldo, Zamarano, Juve with Del Piero, Madrid with Suker etc
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby HammerInMaryland on Thu May 18, 2017 1:23 pm

I know that I am relatively new to European football, being an American come lately. I disagree with the premise. Giving opportunity for top 4 of major leagues to enter Champions League gives teams something to fight for late in the season. Including one also-ran from Romania, Sweden, wherever allows fans in those countries to see great teams and players in their stadiums. Money is a part of all sports, if teams want to compete at the highest level, they have to learn how to overcome their economic challenges. It is not easy, but competing at the highest level never is.

I think the system works, but again, I am relatively naive on European football as a whole.
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby btajim - mcfc on Thu May 18, 2017 1:33 pm

I've found the whole experience thoroughly underwhelming from day one. The football is defensive and cautious with ridiculous rules ensuring our own evenings aren't enjoyable. For me, the competition to be endorsed by Amstel yet no beer is on sale to average fans just sums it all up.

You've missed very little by not qualifying.
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby James P on Thu May 18, 2017 1:35 pm

It's interesting that two of the biggest parties in the demand for and creation of the Champions League, AC Milan and Man Utd, have spent a number of years recently on the outside looking in. Silvio Berlusconi's assertion that it was economically unfeasible for AC Milan to exit Europe early was a watershed moment.

I think the effect was bigger in the early 2000's when CL money so far dwarfed domestic TV deals. The closing of the gap on that score has certainly helped make things a bit more competitive. Domestically, Man City and Tottenham getting their noses into the trough at the expense of various others has been useful too.

The last improvement has been the additional benefit given to league champions in the seeding which was introduced a few years back, both in pre-group stage play offs and the groups themselves. That has helped to stir the pot a bit.

I do agree with the overall premise and was fervently against the competition a decade ago. I'm pleased that some measures have been taken and those soar away teams have had their wings clipped a tad.
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby Jumby on Thu May 18, 2017 1:41 pm

The Champions League gradually killed the chances of a side from Romania or Sweden ever getting to the final again, or winning it. The Champions League has ruined club football to such an extent that the damage is irreparable.

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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Thu May 18, 2017 1:42 pm

I am old enough to remember the old European Cup and various guises of the Champions League. Whilst I don't watch it much anymore (simply because i watch hardly any football these days), i know if i was a youngster I would love it, especially the latter stages

Pretty decent competition IMHO. Usually identifies the best teams in Europe, which, at the end of the day, is the point of it

Yes, of course, it makes the big teams richer, but what system in the modern world wouldn't? There are still opportunities for 'surprise' teams, such as Monaco this year, to make an impact

At least we mix it up a bit in England, the Spanish and German leagues should take more blame for allowing there top clubs to be so utterly dominant domestically that they consistently have the resources to dominate in Europe. Take out the 'big 3' and the standard across Europe is much more consistent.
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby Devils Advocate on Thu May 18, 2017 1:44 pm

HammerInMaryland wrote:I know that I am relatively new to European football, being an American come lately. I disagree with the premise. Giving opportunity for top 4 of major leagues to enter Champions League gives teams something to fight for late in the season. Including one also-ran from Romania, Sweden, wherever allows fans in those countries to see great teams and players in their stadiums. Money is a part of all sports, if teams want to compete at the highest level, they have to learn how to overcome their economic challenges. It is not easy, but competing at the highest level never is.

I think the system works, but again, I am relatively naive on European football as a whole.


Funny you should use Romania and Sweden as examples. Prior to the CL, Steaua Bucharest won the European Cup, and Malmo of Sweden got to the final (losing to Nottingham Forest). It's also the 50th anniversary of Celtic winning it. So under the old format, there was opportunities for clubs from "minor" nations to actually win the thing or do very well in it. The same can't be said now. I'm not convinced that allowing an extra club in from those countries just so they can play against "big" clubs is a fair exchange. IMO it also seems a rather condescending attitude to take.

On top of that, there's the fact that clubs from the "big" leagues such as Forest and Villa that have 3 wins between them have now very little chance of even taking part in the competition despite the increased number of entrants (yes I know, Leicester, but that was very much a one-off unlikely to be repeated), because the big money flows into the pockets of the regular participants every season. making it extremely difficult (unless an extremely rich benefactor comes along) for those outside of the clique to break into it.
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby Jumby on Thu May 18, 2017 1:52 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:Usually identifies the best teams in Europe, which, at the end of the day, is the point of it



It's created the best teams in Europe, leaving it a closed shop in many ways. It's impossible for Scandinavian sides to compete now and outside of Spain, Italy, Germany, England and France nobody stands much chance of getting to the last 8.
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby JCA on Thu May 18, 2017 1:55 pm

I know it's a bit nostalgic / rose tinted and all that, but it should be only the respective national league winners and an FA Cup style out of the bag open draw. In it's current format it is a defacto European Super League, with the Europa League as "Division 2".........It's all about the money, money, money and pandering to the global "fanbase" outside Europe.
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby Jumby on Thu May 18, 2017 1:58 pm

Liverpool haven't won the league in over 25 years, but they've won the Champions League. That alone is enough proof that this tournament is f**ked.
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Thu May 18, 2017 1:59 pm

The Champions League is not wholly to blame for that

Huge Domestic TV deals more to blame for the rise of the top 5 leagues, plus ease of player movement means best Romanians no longer play for Steaua, the best Dutch for Ajax etc

The top leagues would have got stronger, relative to the rest of the Europe, with or without the Champions League

You would simply have a situation where Real Madrid/ Barca/ Bayern would simply need to beat five or six teams every year to win the European Cup, and they would win most of them about 10-0 over two legs

Yes, one year they may draw each other early, but the same countries (and teams) would still dominate
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby Devils Advocate on Thu May 18, 2017 2:16 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:You would simply have a situation where Real Madrid/ Barca/ Bayern would simply need to beat five or six teams every year to win the European Cup

Well that's gone up to seven teams now, but they don't actually need to beat them all.
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby Spammy The Vee on Thu May 18, 2017 2:24 pm

Although I'm not in favor of it, I think the result of The Champions League will eventually be a European Super League that will have more in common with the NFL than anything thats happened in the UK.
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Re: Champions League - The Root Of All Evil

Postby btajim - mcfc on Fri May 19, 2017 8:59 am

Our owners want Champions League. They pressured Manuel Pellegrini to win it last season and it negated our league form.
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