Southampton 3-2 West Ham Utd (19/08/17)
Moderator: Gnome
- Burnley Hammer
- Posts: 16455
- Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:19 pm
- Location: was Colne, Burnley, Hull, Colchester, Norwich, Derby.... Now Nottingham
- Has liked: 232 likes
- Total likes: 2570 likes
- Contact:
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
Central Defenders are used to watching the match play out in front of them. Defensive Midfielders have to be very aware of what's going on in front and behind. It's not an easy transition to make. I noticed Rice was frequently focusing on what was in front and having some difficulty with runners behind him. I'd prefer him to slot into defence and get to grips with that role. Full backs on the other hand are used to having to watch the game in front and behind due to their frequent excursions up the pitch. An experienced player like Zabaleta, with his terrier like attitude, would have been great sat in front of the defence with Obiang, allowing Byram to continue developing at right back. I do think we miss Byrams height too - he's very good in the air and a useful player to have in the box at set pieces.
The only issue I have with the above is that neither Zabaleta or Obiang are really too dominant in the air and we lose out on too many aerial challenges in that area. That's the main reason we miss Kouyate. Not his energy or his athleticism or his defensive capabilities, but his strength and his height.
It was definitely a strange move to play Rice instead of Obiang. If Bilic wanted to improve the defensive side of our game then he should have at least played both.
Cresswell bugs me too. If he has a good game, it's because he's got forward a bit and put in some good crosses. If he has a bad game, it's because he hasn't done that. Nobody really notices the defensive side of his game and that's because he doesn't really do an awful lot other than attempt to block crosses. I like a full back to be much stronger and better in the air. An occasional crunching tackle doesn't go amiss either to let the winger know you mean business.
The only issue I have with the above is that neither Zabaleta or Obiang are really too dominant in the air and we lose out on too many aerial challenges in that area. That's the main reason we miss Kouyate. Not his energy or his athleticism or his defensive capabilities, but his strength and his height.
It was definitely a strange move to play Rice instead of Obiang. If Bilic wanted to improve the defensive side of our game then he should have at least played both.
Cresswell bugs me too. If he has a good game, it's because he's got forward a bit and put in some good crosses. If he has a bad game, it's because he hasn't done that. Nobody really notices the defensive side of his game and that's because he doesn't really do an awful lot other than attempt to block crosses. I like a full back to be much stronger and better in the air. An occasional crunching tackle doesn't go amiss either to let the winger know you mean business.
Online
- OFT
- Posts: 21540
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:59 pm
- Location: Sleepin’ in a bayou on a old rotten cot
- Has liked: 2995 likes
- Total likes: 1758 likes
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
Good to read the posts and opinions of those who were at the game.
As is usual for me, 5 live was the order of the day on saturday. They reported the first penalty as a pull by Ogbonna which came as no surprise at the time.the surprise came when it turned out to be Fonte... not in giving away the pen. but the hideous way in which he did.
Work distracted me from the radio for a while and when I got back we were 1-2 and when level shortly after, I had a strange feeling we were going to nick all 3.
Finally saw the 'highlights' on MOTD this morning.
The last minute pen?......I suppose it was, the fact that Zab would have got away with it at City does n't make it not a pen but it does underline the difference in reffing that those at the top get compared to the rest, the fact that the pundits overlook these issues drive me to distraction.
I do wish the authorities would do away with the pre- kick off line up hand shake thing, it's nonsense .
As is usual for me, 5 live was the order of the day on saturday. They reported the first penalty as a pull by Ogbonna which came as no surprise at the time.the surprise came when it turned out to be Fonte... not in giving away the pen. but the hideous way in which he did.
Work distracted me from the radio for a while and when I got back we were 1-2 and when level shortly after, I had a strange feeling we were going to nick all 3.
Finally saw the 'highlights' on MOTD this morning.
The last minute pen?......I suppose it was, the fact that Zab would have got away with it at City does n't make it not a pen but it does underline the difference in reffing that those at the top get compared to the rest, the fact that the pundits overlook these issues drive me to distraction.
I do wish the authorities would do away with the pre- kick off line up hand shake thing, it's nonsense .
- DannyboyDJL
- Posts: 5547
- Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:59 pm
- Has liked: 40 likes
- Total likes: 200 likes
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
The first Lukaku goal last week was almost identical to their first goal yesterday.
Lukaku's 2nd goal from the free kick was Masuaku not holding the line and he played him onside.
Martial's goal came from him getting between Reid and Zabaleta and Zab was too slow to get across.
The 1st penalty happened because Fonte dropped 5 yards deeper than the rest of the defence instead of pressing Davies on the edge of the box. When he did finally press, he was trying to make up ground and rushed into the tackle. Zabaleta had left Gabbiadini goal side of him in the box, but was offside if Fonte held the line. Fonte dropped to cover him, but left the man free on the edge of the box.
The 2nd penalty came when Yoshida got between Zab and the centre back again. Again he was goal side of Zabaleta, but Cresswell was playing him onside on the other side. Zabaleta was chasing to get back right side and nudged him.
In our pre season game against City, their 2nd goal came from Silva running between Byram and Fonte and crossing to Aguero who was running between Masuaku and Ogbonna. Their 3rd came from Byram leaving Sterling goal side of him and offside, but then Fonte dropped a couple of yards deeper than the rest of the line and played him on.
Basically, our back 4 aren't holding a line or playing as a unit and nearly all the goals are still coming down our right hand side. The full backs are leaving players goal side and offside, but then a centre back is dropping and playing everyone onside.
We also seem to have a massive hole right in front of the back 4 and behind the midfield. The ball is constantly played between the 2 holding midfielders right into the feet of an unmarked player. It happens 5-10 times a game and has been happening for months now.
Lukaku's 2nd goal from the free kick was Masuaku not holding the line and he played him onside.
Martial's goal came from him getting between Reid and Zabaleta and Zab was too slow to get across.
The 1st penalty happened because Fonte dropped 5 yards deeper than the rest of the defence instead of pressing Davies on the edge of the box. When he did finally press, he was trying to make up ground and rushed into the tackle. Zabaleta had left Gabbiadini goal side of him in the box, but was offside if Fonte held the line. Fonte dropped to cover him, but left the man free on the edge of the box.
The 2nd penalty came when Yoshida got between Zab and the centre back again. Again he was goal side of Zabaleta, but Cresswell was playing him onside on the other side. Zabaleta was chasing to get back right side and nudged him.
In our pre season game against City, their 2nd goal came from Silva running between Byram and Fonte and crossing to Aguero who was running between Masuaku and Ogbonna. Their 3rd came from Byram leaving Sterling goal side of him and offside, but then Fonte dropped a couple of yards deeper than the rest of the line and played him on.
Basically, our back 4 aren't holding a line or playing as a unit and nearly all the goals are still coming down our right hand side. The full backs are leaving players goal side and offside, but then a centre back is dropping and playing everyone onside.
We also seem to have a massive hole right in front of the back 4 and behind the midfield. The ball is constantly played between the 2 holding midfielders right into the feet of an unmarked player. It happens 5-10 times a game and has been happening for months now.
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
Just seen the MOTD "coverage" of our match.
b*llocks
Didn't even mention Tadic's challenge either.
Jenas is still bitter about lasagnegate.
b*llocks
Didn't even mention Tadic's challenge either.
Jenas is still bitter about lasagnegate.
Online
I really hope he is.
To be fair I would happily poison all three of those in the MOTD studio last night.
- OFT
- Posts: 21540
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:59 pm
- Location: Sleepin’ in a bayou on a old rotten cot
- Has liked: 2995 likes
- Total likes: 1758 likes
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
Patito wrote: Jenas is still bitter about lasagnegate.
I really hope he is.
To be fair I would happily poison all three of those in the MOTD studio last night.
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
The thing is, you look at teams spending millions on their defence and they're not really bringing experienced, ageing defenders in. While I think the balance has to be right, we currently have Fonte - age 33, Winston Reid (our best defender) - 29, contacted at the club for another 6 years, Ginge - age 33 and Ogbonna - age 29.
I don't suppose it'd hurt to get a younger CB, someone who'll challenge for the spot and learn from the elders. Also a bit of pace and awareness wouldn't go amiss.
Maybe Oxford could be that player, but we've been saying that for the last few seasons now.
I don't suppose it'd hurt to get a younger CB, someone who'll challenge for the spot and learn from the elders. Also a bit of pace and awareness wouldn't go amiss.
Maybe Oxford could be that player, but we've been saying that for the last few seasons now.
- Absolutely Hammered!
- Posts: 2071
- Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:45 am
- Location: Spoons... Table 28... It's on the left.
- Has liked: 62 likes
- Total likes: 254 likes
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
If I could find the Antonio thread I'd post it there but this guy had no pre season and was one of our best players yesterday. People say Slav isn't a fan because of his technical ability but the hunger and desire he shows in every game is admerable and massiveky outweighs any technical weaknesses. If arnie showed the same level of professionalism he'd be quality. People talk about first names on the team sheet and for me he comes in Along with lanzini and Chico. Top man with a top attitude.
He even brought a physio on his Vegas stag do ffs!
He even brought a physio on his Vegas stag do ffs!
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
OFT wrote:
I really hope he is.
To be fair I would happily poison all three of those in the MOTD studio last night.
He gets very wound up whenever it's brought up and rolls out all the excuses.
I normally quite like Danny Murphy as a pundit, seems like a boring human being though.
Still can't get my head around what Arnautovic was doing the clown. Really nasty foul that with his elbow out.
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
Steps - you make a valid point, perhaps Rice will be that player this season?
- Sauce!
- Posts: 5997
- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:47 pm
- Location: sitting on a bucket on a hamper in the corner of the old wigwam.
- Total likes: 5 likes
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
Clearly Bilic doesn't rate/trust him.steps wrote:Maybe Oxford could be that player, but we've been saying that for the last few seasons now.
Reece was doing ok a couple of seasons ago, getting regular run-outs in the 1st team. Then he made one mistake (rolled by Lukaku away to Everton, yes THAT Lukaku ).
He was hooked at half time and we won the game 3-2.
Since then it's been a couple of cameos in the Europa League & lower league loans.
Then we spend £8M on journeyman Fonte.
As the great George Benson once said:
I believe that children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
- the pink palermo
- Huge noggin
- Posts: 45058
- Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:00 pm
- Location: The Notorious Gate B @LS
- Has liked: 759 likes
- Total likes: 2940 likes
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
He made two serious errors that season, the first was at home against, from memory, Bournemouth , he stopped tracking his man a yard too soon, and he scored .Sauce! wrote:.
Reece was doing ok a couple of seasons ago, getting regular run-outs in the 1st team. Then he made one mistake (rolled by Lukaku away to Everton, yes THAT Lukaku ).
He was hooked at half time and we won the game 3-2.
6 points .
Personally I don't think Oxford is going to make it at the highest level .
-
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:33 pm
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
I was there yesterday. Eventful afternoon in the lower section of block 43. If you're going to give penalties in the 93rd minute to effectively decide a game they have to be 200% nailed on decisions. This decision was 50/50 at the very best. Sadly people like Mason love the attention and adulation of it all. They are completely in awe of the profile of the players and want some of the action themselves.
- MorthwylMawr
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:09 am
- Has liked: 379 likes
- Total likes: 42 likes
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
Having only watched the highlights,
they got a deserved pen and an iffy pen,
their first goal was too easy.
We should have had a pen
We were lucky that Nobes didn't walk.
Arnie was unprofessional deserved his red card and we will now pay the price.
The fight back was decent and both goals were well taken.
Jenas is still bitter
they got a deserved pen and an iffy pen,
their first goal was too easy.
We should have had a pen
We were lucky that Nobes didn't walk.
Arnie was unprofessional deserved his red card and we will now pay the price.
The fight back was decent and both goals were well taken.
Jenas is still bitter
- eastsider
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:30 pm
- Location: London E4
- Has liked: 54 likes
- Total likes: 6 likes
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
Patito wrote:Just seen the MOTD "coverage" of our match.
b*llocks
Didn't even mention Tadic's challenge either.
Jenas is still bitter about lasagnegate.
Well unfortunately what else do we expect from the BBC these days??
- Sauce!
- Posts: 5997
- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:47 pm
- Location: sitting on a bucket on a hamper in the corner of the old wigwam.
- Total likes: 5 likes
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
Sauce! wrote:Reece was doing ok a couple of seasons ago, getting regular run-outs in the 1st team. Then he made one mistake (rolled by Lukaku away to Everton, yes THAT Lukaku ).
He was hooked at half time and we won the game 3-2.
Pinky (is it ok to call you that?)the pink palermo wrote:He made two serious errors that season, the first was at home against, from memory, Bournemouth , he stopped tracking his man a yard too soon, and he scored .
6 points .
Personally I don't think Oxford is going to make it at the highest level .
Not trying to be a smart-arse but it was the Leicester game (had to check with WestHamStats).
That was the only game Oxford lost playing in the C&B and, as I'm sure you know the main, nay, sole reason we lost that game was Anthony f&cking Taylor.
Alas you are probably right about him, but I'm just an old fashioned fan who likes to see home-grown talent flourish.
- Puff Daddy
- Gone for a Burton
- Posts: 42250
- Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:08 pm
- Location: Westham Way
- Has liked: 248 likes
- Total likes: 1160 likes
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
Had it been at the other end, he wouldn't have given it. that is for sure. but it was one of those that was technically a penalty. Once he realised Ushida was presented with a good goalscoring chance, Zabaletta resorted to shoving Ushida in the back. On another day, with another ref, he will get away with that. From the replays. I don't know why Hart was caught on his line, that hopeful cross into our 6 yard box was made from near the half way line and there really was no need for him to have been stuck on his line. one step forwards and he could have either punched it away, or caught it.The Big Show wrote:I was there yesterday. Eventful afternoon in the lower section of block 43. If you're going to give penalties in the 93rd minute to effectively decide a game they have to be 200% nailed on decisions. This decision was 50/50 at the very best. Sadly people like Mason love the attention and adulation of it all. They are completely in awe of the profile of the players and want some of the action themselves.
-
- Posts: 26349
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:31 am
- Location: Forest Gate
- Has liked: 137 likes
- Total likes: 2357 likes
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
It was awful defending. A long punt up to a CB playing as a CF. Not hard to deal with it. Hart, Zabaleta, one of the CBs. Just get it done. Yoshida is hardly Gerd Muller so once he is wrong side just let him have a go. It was not an easy ball to head.
But yes Hart needs to come out and clatter them all tbf
But yes Hart needs to come out and clatter them all tbf
- the pink palermo
- Huge noggin
- Posts: 45058
- Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:00 pm
- Location: The Notorious Gate B @LS
- Has liked: 759 likes
- Total likes: 2940 likes
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
So do I , I'd be delighted if he really broke through but he couldn't get in Jaap Stams line up last term, suggesting he's progressing slowly , if at all .It's matchday 1 in the Bundesliga this weekend and Borrusia play Cologne this evening , the likely line up list doesn't have him in it .Sauce! wrote: Not trying to be a smart-arse but it was the Leicester game (had to check with WestHamStats).
That was the only game Oxford lost playing in the C&B and, as I'm sure you know the main, nay, sole reason we lost that game was Anthony f&cking Taylor.
Alas you are probably right about him, but I'm just an old fashioned fan who likes to see home-grown talent flourish.
- DaveRayleigh777
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:08 pm
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
There were a few inevitable negatives yesterday, but I really feel the positives outweigh them and we're going to have a strong season. Bold words I know given we're glued to the bottom, but the negs look fixable to me.
.
Negatives:
Arnie - stupid sending off, it's done, he's somewhat remorseful so hopefully he'll learn from it.
Nobes - still looking weak, will be resolved if we get the DM we're striving for as we speak.
Defence - overall weak but again this is due to a lack of protection from the midfield. Will hopefully be resolved with Carvalho or similar.
.
Positives:
Fight back - coming back from 2-0 down with 10 men. There is team spirit there, they've shown they can fight back. We rolled over much easier last season.
Strike force - Antonio & Hernandez are strong and we now know Pea hasn't lost his goal scoring instinct.
Margins - we weren't hammered by any means. The win was marginal, the ref was poor and they only scored once from open play. Could easily have gone either way.
Zaba - in spite of his last minute error, this guy has been a weapon. Talk of his age is unfair, he's bleeding claret & blue and has resolved a long term issue.
Bilic - some odd choices but whatever he said at half time, he pulled them together. He deserves our support (at least for now, I accept there are question marks over his tactical prowess but this will become clearer in time).
.
I'm a natural optimist, and yeah our faults being resolved is dependent on further success in the transfer window but we do at least know they are looking to strengthen the exact area where the weaknesses lie. This time last year, even with payet, we looked weak as kittens everywhere, at least now it's more specific, smaller improvements required.
.
Negatives:
Arnie - stupid sending off, it's done, he's somewhat remorseful so hopefully he'll learn from it.
Nobes - still looking weak, will be resolved if we get the DM we're striving for as we speak.
Defence - overall weak but again this is due to a lack of protection from the midfield. Will hopefully be resolved with Carvalho or similar.
.
Positives:
Fight back - coming back from 2-0 down with 10 men. There is team spirit there, they've shown they can fight back. We rolled over much easier last season.
Strike force - Antonio & Hernandez are strong and we now know Pea hasn't lost his goal scoring instinct.
Margins - we weren't hammered by any means. The win was marginal, the ref was poor and they only scored once from open play. Could easily have gone either way.
Zaba - in spite of his last minute error, this guy has been a weapon. Talk of his age is unfair, he's bleeding claret & blue and has resolved a long term issue.
Bilic - some odd choices but whatever he said at half time, he pulled them together. He deserves our support (at least for now, I accept there are question marks over his tactical prowess but this will become clearer in time).
.
I'm a natural optimist, and yeah our faults being resolved is dependent on further success in the transfer window but we do at least know they are looking to strengthen the exact area where the weaknesses lie. This time last year, even with payet, we looked weak as kittens everywhere, at least now it's more specific, smaller improvements required.
- Rio
- Ronnie Biggs was here
- Posts: 25987
- Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:29 pm
- Location: Reykjavik comma Iceland full stop
- Has liked: 159 likes
- Total likes: 1080 likes
- Contact:
Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread
As someone else said, it's amazing how 30 seconds can change the whole tone and nature of a thread.
Held it at 2-2 and we would have been buzzing about earning a point from that position and team spirit etc. etc.
Instead it's all doom and gloom and worked had collapsed. Hopefully on Cardiff's troll like fingers
Held it at 2-2 and we would have been buzzing about earning a point from that position and team spirit etc. etc.
Instead it's all doom and gloom and worked had collapsed. Hopefully on Cardiff's troll like fingers